Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[TopCat]

Yeah, fuck the theatre, only Waitrose people care about that. If no European actors dancers musicians come over here to tour either then that’s even better, the posh foreign wankers. Am I doing it right?

No you are being a fool. Not even funny haha.

 

[TopCat]

editor What did you use to pay the bands you “put on” in the Albert say a decade ago? A pint or so wan’t it? Is this the real reason you won’t forgo a pint a week to join the Musicians Union? That membership would require you to pay bands to play?

 

[TopCat]

except of course many of them have, without ever being here. just as a couple of examples fawlty towers is very popular in germany, as is blackadder while the french are very keen on the office.

Norman Wisdom is very popular amongst the wrong sort of Europeans.

 

[editor]

editor What did you use to pay the bands you “put on” in the Albert say a decade ago? A pint or so wan’t it? Is this the real reason you won’t forgo a pint a week to join the Musicians Union? That membership would require you to pay bands to play?

Oh right - so your earlier comment really was a nasty veiled dig at me based on what you think happened over a decade ago. Nice.

And now you're trying to keep it personal with some half baked theory about why I won't join the MU ten years later, even though I've explained in great detail why that is (starting with the fact that I haven't been paid anything since March 2020). To be honest, I'm really disgusted to see you taking such cheap personal swipes here. Really below you.

FYI: It's none of your fucking business what I paid bands back then but I can tell you one thing: it took a shitload of work to put on those shows and not one band ever complained about the fee.

I paid for the PA system out of my own money. I set up the entire rig every night, I set up the backline, did the soundcheck, did the live sound, did the video stuff, DJd, promoted the night, designed posters, took photos and then published a photo review after the gig. And it was free for everyone.

The crowds were happy, the pub was happy, the DJs were happy and - most importantly of all - the bands were happy too. And that included their fee. And that's why so many of them kept coming back again and again.

And if I had to pay MU rates back then, the gigs would never have taken place. I seem to recall you being very happy to attend some of those nights and I don't recall you ever being bothered about what deal the bands were on. Funny that, isn't it?

 

[Saul Goodman]

I've seen footage of Eddie Izzard performing in French. A lot of effort had clearly been put in, but the audience was tiny and it's fair to say they weren't exactly rolling in the aisles.

Yeah but thats only because Eddie Izzard is utter shite. Not all comedians are utter shite, just 99.93% of them.

 

[MickiQ]

Yeah but thats only because Eddie Izzard is utter shite. Not all comedians are utter shite, just 99.93% of them.

Now you're being harsh personally I would put it at no higher than 99%, you're right about Eddie Izzard though

 

[Raheem]

Yeah but thats only because Eddie Izzard is utter shite.

That's how the French like their comedy, though, so it's surprising.

 

[The39thStep]

That's how the French like their comedy, though, so it's surprising.

Monsieur Hulot was alright and I really like the Jean-Pierre Jeunet films

 

[rutabowa]

Oh right - so your earlier comment really was a nasty veiled dig at me based on what you think happened over a decade ago. Nice.

And now you're trying to keep it personal with some half baked theory about why I won't join the MU ten years later, even though I've explained in great detail why that is (starting with the fact that I haven't been paid anything since March 2020). To be honest, I'm really disgusted to see you taking such cheap personal swipes here. Really below you.

FYI: It's none of your fucking business what I paid bands back then but I can tell you one thing: it took a shitload of work to put on those shows and not one band ever complained about the fee.

I paid for the PA system out of my own money. I set up the entire rig every night, I set up the backline, did the soundcheck, did the live sound, did the video stuff, DJd, promoted the night, designed posters, took photos and then published a photo review after the gig. And it was free for everyone.

The crowds were happy, the pub was happy, the DJs were happy and - most importantly of all - the bands were happy too. And that included their fee. And that's why so many of them kept coming back again and again.

And if I had to pay MU rates back then, the gigs would never have taken place. I seem to recall you being very happy to attend some of those nights and I don't recall you ever being bothered about what deal the bands were on. Funny that, isn't it?

TopCat Just want to confirm all this that ed says. It was one of the best gigs to play in london for band of our level, which is why we (and loads of other bands) did it over and over again, it was obviously done with a load of effort and love. and without out going into details it just isn't true that bands only got paid a pint. They wouldn't come back over and over again if they did. It is pretty much unheard of to manage to put on a free night like that in london (so everyone in the area can (and did) come, it was a proper mix of everyone in the area (at least everyone in the area who drank)) and still pay people, but somehow for a while he managed to! Even in trendy brixton! And it added to the whole area imo, while it was on. Disagreements about politics are one thing, but it isn't fair to go personal like that, particularly when you get the reality of the situation totally twisted...

 

[editor]

TopCat Just want to confirm all this that ed says. It was one of the best gigs to play in london for band of our level, which is why we (and loads of other bands) did it over and over again, it was obviously done with a load of effort and love. and without out going into details it just isn't true that bands only got paid a pint. They wouldn't come back over and over again if they did. It is pretty much unheard of to manage to put on a free night like that in london (so everyone in the area can (and did) come, it was a proper mix of everyone in the area (at least everyone in the area who drank)) and still pay people, but somehow for a while he managed to! Even in trendy brixton! And it added to the whole area imo, while it was on. Disagreements about politics are one thing, but it isn't fair to go personal like that, particularly when you get the reality of the situation totally twisted...

Thanks, that's really appreciated mate. I really did my best to put on the kind of evening that I'd want to play in or watch, and to make sure that the place was full, the vibes friendly and everyone had a good time.

Just about every gig I've ever put on has been free for everyone, and that was something that was really important to me because not everyone can afford to pay to see acts.

And as you say, it's hard to book good bands when there's no door money to share out, but I'm proud of some of the bills I put together, and I'm honoured that so many bands were willing to support the night. And I'd loved putting you guys on!

And to get back to Top Cat's point, if I'd been forced to pay every act MU rates, then the gigs would never have happened. None of them.

 

[Maltin]

I'm not completely up to date with the cultural fabric of Europe but do UK comedians tour Europe?

Looking online at a random selection of successful comedians, I saw that Ricky Gervais toured Humanity in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo and Reykjavik. Ed Byrne also went to Scandinavia and Iceland.

Jimmy Carr's scheduled tour, as well as Scandinavia, also goes to Belgium and the Netherlands.

World tour dates | Jimmy Carr

 

[The39thStep]

Looking online at a random selection of successful comedians, I saw that Ricky Gervais toured Humanity in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo and Reykjavik. Ed Byrne also went to Scandinavia and Iceland.

Jimmy Carr's scheduled tour, as well as Scandinavia, also goes to Belgium and the Netherlands.

World tour dates | Jimmy Carr

Thanks but I think other posters have proved its a small niche market and isn't really part of the UK contribution to the fabric of European culture.

 

[Pickman's model]

Looking online at a random selection of successful comedians, I saw that Ricky Gervais toured Humanity in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo and Reykjavik. Ed Byrne also went to Scandinavia and Iceland.

Jimmy Carr's scheduled tour, as well as Scandinavia, also goes to Belgium and the Netherlands.

World tour dates | Jimmy Carr

vast swathes of britons believe carr is unfunny. i wouldn't hold him up as a great british comedy export.

 

[Maltin]

vast swathes of britons believe carr is unfunny. i wouldn't hold him up as a great british comedy export.

Given the number of dates, the Dutch seem to like him.

 

[Pickman's model]

Given the number of dates, the Dutch seem to like him.

the dutch are welcome to him

 

[Raheem]

Looking online at a random selection of successful comedians, I saw that Ricky Gervais toured Humanity in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo and Reykjavik. Ed Byrne also went to Scandinavia and Iceland.

Jimmy Carr's scheduled tour, as well as Scandinavia, also goes to Belgium and the Netherlands.

World tour dates | Jimmy Carr

Got to say, I'm a bit surprised by all that, but I suppose English is less of a barrier in Scandinavia, Holland and Brussels. Also, Gervais is a celebrity as well as (or, arguably, instead of) a comedian.

 

[Pickman's model]

Got to say, I'm a bit surprised by all that, but I suppose English is less of a barrier in Scandinavia, Holland and Brussels. Also, Gervais is a celebrity as well as (or, arguably, instead of) a comedian.

celebrated in the world of comedy for making it without being funny

 

[Saul Goodman]

Looking online at a random selection of successful comedians, I saw that Ricky Gervais toured Humanity in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo and Reykjavik.

All those places and he still hasn't managed to find anybody who finds him even remotely funny.

 

[Pickman's model]

All those places and he still hasn't managed to find anybody who finds him even remotely funny.

yeh but on the positive side - from the point of view of britons - he's been out of the country

 

[Saul Goodman]

yeh but on the positive side - from the point of view of britons - he's been out of the country

Yeah, but 'bad penny' immediately springs to mind.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

TopCat Just want to confirm all this that ed says. It was one of the best gigs to play in london for band of our level, which is why we (and loads of other bands) did it over and over again, it was obviously done with a load of effort and love. and without out going into details it just isn't true that bands only got paid a pint. They wouldn't come back over and over again if they did. It is pretty much unheard of to manage to put on a free night like that in london (so everyone in the area can (and did) come, it was a proper mix of everyone in the area (at least everyone in the area who drank)) and still pay people, but somehow for a while he managed to! Even in trendy brixton! And it added to the whole area imo, while it was on. Disagreements about politics are one thing, but it isn't fair to go personal like that, particularly when you get the reality of the situation totally twisted...

For similar reasons is why I travelled down to London on multiple occasions to sort the PA in the venue and only ever asked for my travel costs to be covered.

Offline was a rare gem of a night. We desperately need more like it.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

In other news, oh look, it’s not just musicians being screwed by the Brexit clusterfuck...

British pros urge government to negotiate visa-free permit to race in EU after being left in lurch by Brexit

Some British riders are currently limited to 90 days of travel in Europe and are campaigning for the introduction of a visa-free permit as the new season gets underway

www.cyclingweekly.com

 

[editor]

For similar reasons is why I travelled down to London on multiple occasions to sort the PA in the venue and only ever asked for my travel costs to be covered.

Offline was a rare gem of a night. We desperately need more like it.

And your work was always much appreciated (even if the other DJs employed by the bar would do their best to trash the PA!).

I'm going to try and launch something similar when this is pandemic over but it's become increasingly hard to find appropriate venues, unless you want to charge on the door, which I don't. I guess it will be much harder to book European bands too and that will be a real shame. I used to love introducing those bands to a Brixton crowd!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's profoundly depressing to see so many posters dissing or dismissing ideas about cultural exchange as if they were only elitist concerns. It's bizarre to read.

 

[TopCat]

TopCat Just want to confirm all this that ed says. It was one of the best gigs to play in london for band of our level, which is why we (and loads of other bands) did it over and over again, it was obviously done with a load of effort and love. and without out going into details it just isn't true that bands only got paid a pint. They wouldn't come back over and over again if they did. It is pretty much unheard of to manage to put on a free night like that in london (so everyone in the area can (and did) come, it was a proper mix of everyone in the area (at least everyone in the area who drank)) and still pay people, but somehow for a while he managed to! Even in trendy brixton! And it added to the whole area imo, while it was on. Disagreements about politics are one thing, but it isn't fair to go personal like that, particularly when you get the reality of the situation totally twisted...

I appreciate your frankness and obvious sincerity, it caused me to reflect.

I will state for the record I really enjoyed the Offline nights. When Ed started them it was a great crowd, full on fun and hilarity, I never had a bad night.

I accept he worked hard to put them on. He was always scrabbling about for a projector or some kit on urban so the effort was in plain sight.

The night I remember most fondly (I had taken drugs) seemed to involve a 15 member brass band. I remain puzzled as to how they fitted in the Albert and on the tiny staging.

We all loved the Offlines, they brought a great group of misfits together. Ed posted that he had to cover everything and it’s true the bands didn’t mind too much not getting much pay.

I have a lot of regard for the fella. Urban has been fabulously supportive for me over two decades.

Our differences are political, lockdown just makes rows on here worse, too much time and few distractions.

I will now step left, leave any beef and continue to reflect.

 

[editor]

Shitty Brexit strikes again

Rebecca Boulton, who manages New Order, told a roundtable hosted by Labour on Tuesday morning that the iconic band might skip Europe on its next world tour due to the new costs and paperwork associated with performing in the EU.

“When we look at the budgets for touring in Europe, we may well look at it and think actually, it’s not worth it. We’ll just carrying on touring in America or Japan or Australia, which isn’t great," she said.

The new rules mean that UK performers and their crews must secure work permits and other costly documents to work in EU member states. Touring hauliers which carry them and their equipment are now limited to just three stops in the EU before returning to the UK.

Boulton said that she was "very concerned" for crew members and UK-based sound, video, and lighting companies who support the band on tour, who are already "really struggling" having not had work since the beginning of the pandemic. "What good is it doing Britain to not use those companies?” Boulton said.

New Order Considering Skipping Europe On Next Tour Due To Soaring Post-Brexit Costs And Red Tape

A growing cohort of musicians and artists are revealing how post-Brexit barriers to touring in the European Union are disrupting or in some cases d...

www.politicshome.com

 

[editor]

This is astonishing. Over 80% of musicians are now unlikely to tour Europe because of fucking Brexit.

"In February, a House of Commons survey of musicians who signed a petition calling for visa-free touring found that 81% of respondents said they were now likely to stop touring Europe. In addition, 60% said they were considering a change in career."

Harriet Harman proposes plan for UK musicians to tour EU post-Brexit

Labour MP says government ‘cocked up’ negotiations on touring and is ignorant of the value of music to the economy

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sasaferrato]

There was an article in the latest eye with regard to orchestras.

Apparently, if they send their instruments to Europe, the UK registered truck can only make two further journeys in the EU.

The obvious solution seems to be to use an EU haulier.

 

[Pickman's model]

There was an article in the latest eye with regard to orchestras.

Apparently, if they send their instruments to Europe, the UK registered truck can only make two further journeys in the EU.

The obvious solution seems to be to use an EU haulier.

Take more than one UK truck. Only have some of them empty. Use them in rotation so they don't fall foul of the regs.

 

[editor]

There was an article in the latest eye with regard to orchestras.

Apparently, if they send their instruments to Europe, the UK registered truck can only make two further journeys in the EU.

The obvious solution seems to be to use an EU haulier.

A fantastic Brexit win for the UK haulage industry then.