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BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff

equationgirl said:
I wonder if they would sell though, for the right price. After all, if they really aren't in it for the money, why didn't they stay as a small brewer? Why do they own a string of pubs up and down the UK?

one of the comments was interesting - pointing out that the proposed new article of association could be made stronger. I doubt brewdog has crap lawyers and the choice of words was deliberately weak.
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James Watt has been pretty clear on this - they are two guys who are passionate about beer who want to make great beer and get it to people.

It genuinely looks like that's what he's up to. They may be making shedloads of cash but seem to be ploughing it back into the business. They were the first brewery to pay the living wage, increase staff pay if they get relevant qualifications, and the people I know who worked there only stopped because they were poached. (And some went back).

I think it's worth remembering that there are people who read "Good to Great" and said "yes, why not build a great place to work at that does great things, rather than just making a pile of cash and retiring". The "entrepreneurs journey" story where you sell out the business after 5-7 years is mostly aspirational for people I wouldn't spend time with :)
 
rich! said:
Oh, I don't know, maybe *read the book* where he sets out his philosophy of business?
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Why on earth would I want to do that? There's enough of their propaganda knocking about already.

The point is that it seems unlikely that they would behave as they do - frequently cynically and unpleasantly to these eyes - and then out of principle not act in their own best interests if the right proposition came along. I guess time will tell.
 
rich! said:
Oh, I don't know, maybe *read the book* where he sets out his philosophy of business?
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James Dyson did the exact same thing - he said he was passionate about engineering and wanted manufacturing in the UK to grow again. He believed in it so much he shipped all his manufacturing to Malaysia. he also stopped offering a lifetime guarantee on all his products, it's only five years now. He didn't need the money either, his company was doing fantastically.
 
There's much to agree with in the Brewdog blog post, but they have a long history of their rhetoric not matching their reality. What is clear is that the Camden sale was a fine opportunity for positioning the company in opposition to the majors, and they were quick out of the traps: every craft ale dullard in the country will have shared that post on fb. But it is positioning. If Brewdog remain independent, it's because the business model they've pioneered - which includes a bullish commitment to independence - makes them enough money (and it does seem to be doing this very well).

Camden, despite it's substantial turnover, seems to be making a very modest profit: the sale price seems to be well over what it's actually worth. Who can blame them for taking the cash? I would have.
 
equationgirl said:
James Dyson did the exact same thing - he said he was passionate about engineering and wanted manufacturing in the UK to grow again. He believed in it so much he shipped all his manufacturing to Malaysia. he also stopped offering a lifetime guarantee on all his products, it's only five years now. He didn't need the money either, his company was doing fantastically.
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I've never heard anyone say James Dyson was a great guy to work for, tbf, and I've met a number of people who worked for him.

Brewdog really does seem to be a company set up by two guys who love brewing great beer and want to do that. If they change their minds about that, then I'd expect them to sell up, move out, move on. Camden, on the other hand, does seem to be a company that was setup entrepreneurially to build on the craft beer trend and make a lot of money and cash out. And, to be fair, their beer quality has always reflected that.
 
equationgirl said:
Brewdog do have a long track record of do as we say, not do as we do.
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Apart from the deeply unpleasant marketing what else have they done that has created a long track record?

I'm not a fan of the omnipresent conjoined frat boys who own Brewdog, but I like the beer that they produce and I just got two cartons at half price.
 
I mentioned the Camden sale to a friend who runs a pub this evening, and he told me he wasn't surprised as they're money grubbing fucks who make shit beer. He also mentioned that they'd sued a smaller brewery who also used the name 'Hells', despite it just being in both cases simply a play on the german word for a light beer (Helles), rather than the smaller brewery ripping off Camden.
 
I'm the Landlord of a free of tie North London pub which sells shed loads of Camden Hells and Camden Pale Ale. I'm pretty disappointed by this sale because we'd much rather source most of our beer from independent, local breweries than large international conglomerates. However as long as they continue to brew locally and the quality doesn't drop, I think we will carry on selling their beer. I can understand why some of the people who invested in their recent crowdfunding exercise might be put out - I suspect many contributed to support the growth of an independent brewery, and not simply as a financial investment.

We don't sell Brewdog beers mainly due to this very thread. As an old punk rocker, I find Brewdog's branding is nails-down-a-blackboard painful and can't stand the sight of the couple of twats that run the company.
 
When treelover bumped the thread he compared it to Indie labels which seemed wrong to me because I thought the connection people have to music isn't the same as it is to beer. From the last couple of pages it seems it is similar though - there's the same expectation that because someone has made some songs/beer that they should stick to a belief system they've never said they actually believe in.

Difference is that the Dischord Brewery producing Fugazi Pale Ale doesn't exist. It would be interesting to see someone try it, I think they'd end up getting furiously denounced when they discovered that they couldn't compete with White Lightening and Special Brew and were forced to sell at a mark up to people with money.
 
equationgirl said:
I wonder if they would sell though, for the right price. After all, if they really aren't in it for the money, why didn't they stay as a small brewer? Why do they own a string of pubs up and down the UK?

one of the comments was interesting - pointing out that the proposed new article of association could be made stronger. I doubt brewdog has crap lawyers and the choice of words was deliberately weak.
Click to expand...
One reason for having your own outlets is you can then serve your beer just as you'd want it served, the beer journey is from brewing to glass and it can damage your brand if say pubs don't look after the beers, the cellar is too warm or whatever.

Brewbog beers are really beautiful beers from what I remember, they deserve to be looked after properly.

If they're buying/ selling outlets, that is just the stuff the hospitality industry is made of.
 
8ball said:
That assumes a reason not to try this one.
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Because in this case they've demonstrated multiple times that they're dicks?

Because most of these 'indie'/start-up companies are set up by privately educated spoiled shites with massive social capital and daddy's money, have zero knowledge or concern about the interests of wider society and are basically tories that would happily fly the flag for Boris Johnson (as some have done). It's not innovation or enterprise, it's a continuation of existing hierarchies 'with a funky twist'.
 
badseed said:
Apart from the deeply unpleasant marketing what else have they done that has created a long track record?

I'm not a fan of the omnipresent conjoined frat boys who own Brewdog, but I like the beer that they produce and I just got two cartons at half price.
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I dunno about do-as-I-say etc, but at some point down the road of setting up a national business empire, raising millions in private equity, etc etc, whilst there remain minnow independents, you have to acknowledge that you're no longer the plucky little upstart whose rhetoric constituted much of your schtick.

Now you can delay that a little by dressing up your equity raise as crowdfunding - or 'Equity for Punks' if you're a dickhead - and still not being up there with the multibillion majors. But not indefinitely and not with the same ferocity.

Then you can bang on about independence and the irrelevance of market share etc, which is easy when you're winning, but as they quietly admit themselves amongst all the bluster in that blog post, they have to ask their shareholders for permission first to change their articles. Heh. To something vague with no legal meaning anyway. At this point I doubt they could stop themselves being bought out if they tried.

And yet there are structures available that could have enshrined independence and the claimed values - a co-op, a trust etc - if it had mattered. But it doesn't because it's primarily about capital. Which is absolutely normal and unremarkable until you make a big fuss about how you're different.
 
8115 said:
One reason for having your own outlets is you can then serve your beer just as you'd want it served, the beer journey is from brewing to glass and it can damage your brand if say pubs don't look after the beers, the cellar is too warm or whatever.

Brewbog beers are really beautiful beers from what I remember, they deserve to be looked after properly.

If they're buying/ selling outlets, that is just the stuff the hospitality industry is made of.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much only the case if you have a single outlet, you can control everything exactly the way you want it then. But multiple outlets up and down the country, some hundreds of miles away from your brewery, even with the best will in the world not everything is going to be controlled perfectly. The lines may not be flushed properly. The glasses should be washed properly but might not be and so on.

They're always on the look out for new sites, they're not content with just a few pubs to sell their products through. They want to grow and make more money and they're trying to make out they are rebellious and edgy while doing so.
 
badseed said:
Apart from the deeply unpleasant marketing what else have they done that has created a long track record?

I'm not a fan of the omnipresent conjoined frat boys who own Brewdog, but I like the beer that they produce and I just got two cartons at half price.
Click to expand...
They appear to have, by their own admission, a bit of a track record of elasticating the facts somewhat, especially when it comes to getting loans from banks and at least one supply contract:
THE BIG PROFILE – JAMES WATT, BREWDOG: Beer revolutionary who pushes the boundaries
 
A slight exaggeration but not much of one - Brewdog make one beer and sell it in several differently labelled (330 fucking mil) bottles. And it's pot luck as to the quality of the beer you'll find in those bottles - Can be ok, can be not so ok. Still, not as bad as Sierra Nevada pine-needle flavour toilet duck "beer". Which also in a 330 ml bottle.

I know it's all subjective but forget all this brewdog nonsense and all this craft gimpery - I'd recommend anyone within commuting distance of the Black Country try some Batham's
Bathams Brewery | Our Brews

-A small, family run brewery making nice beer without any of the attendant bullshit that all too often seems to come with the craft territory.

And unfined beers aren't supposed to be fucking cloudy at all. #murkshaming.
 
Bathams definitely kicks the arse on quality :) :cool:

Hard to find unsurprisingly, I've only ever had it when on a CAMRA trip to the Black Country three years ago (we also visited the excellent Sadlers brewery down the road).

I'm drinking some superb Yeti from Tattons in Cheshire right now -- beers from there are local distribution only, found no further away than Liverpool, or Manchester (not too often in those cities either) and they're completely small scale and independent**

(We only had the Yeti down here because out festival mate -- beer and music -- is one of the brewers :cool: and brought a few pints down in a box :) )..

**Which is what most of the best beers are all about IMO. Obviously I do sometimes buy/drink beer from the bigger more well known corporates, but I much prefer the small scale when I can find it :)
 
Is it unusual to Hampshire to have loads of brewers? Out our way we have Upham, Bowman Ales, Ringwood, Flack Manor and a whole bunch of others. Wetherspoons & the like do a pretty good job of stocking the products, as do smaller supermarkets like Coop & Budgens.
 
mauvais said:
Is it unusual to Hampshire to have loads of brewers? Out our way we have Upham, Bowman Ales, Ringwood, Flack Manor and a whole bunch of others. Wetherspoons & the like do a pretty good job of stocking the products, as do smaller supermarkets like Coop & Budgens.
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isn't that area where hops were grown traditionally? Not sure if they still are.
 
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