equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
where's the fraud? Crowdfunders invested and will get a returnon their investment. It wasn't a ponzi scheme.
BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff
- Thread starter treelover
- Start date
It's hilarious that 'craft beer purists' expect any other kind of behaviour from the brewers. On the whole, these aren't a few old dudes who love beer having a hack at it: they're hardnosed businessmen exploiting a trend - yes, they probably also enjoy drinking beer (who doesn't?), but it's primarily a business concern, rich kids trying make money. Of course they're going to sell out when inbev come waving their dollars - it was probably all in their original business plan.
Also, the article says the crowdfunders have got an additional 70% back on their investment. Totally defrauded.
Also, the article says the crowdfunders have got an additional 70% back on their investment. Totally defrauded.
I can partly see the 'fraud' point though (in terms of customers I mean). If those beers continue to be marketed as if they're fully independently produced, whereas now they're a sub-brand of BIg Boy International, Inc, then that's none too honest in one way.
I'm not saying I expect anything different though. Nor am I any fan at all of 'craft' as a concept because it can mean far too many different things to different people. Almost meaningless really.
There are plenty of other brewers around who stay small (or smallish) and independent though, and who only plan to expand modestly.
I'm not saying I expect anything different though. Nor am I any fan at all of 'craft' as a concept because it can mean far too many different things to different people. Almost meaningless really.
There are plenty of other brewers around who stay small (or smallish) and independent though, and who only plan to expand modestly.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I keep seeing these in pubs and supermarkets. Who want to buy a tiny bottle of over priced beer, especially when there is plenty of other decent ales.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
As pointed out I guess the 'fraud' is a bottle of beer that looks like it has been made by a couple of real ale enthusiasts in a shed behind a pub in the Norfolk countryside but is really made in a massive brewery in Birmingham. There have always been beers made in sheds in Norfolk, they were/are dispensed from a barrel at local beer festivals. A 'beer festival' of regional beers/ciders is of course just an excuse for a pissup so just a marketing ploy. Craft beer just takes all this a stage further & makes millionaires not bankrupts.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
People who want to try a new beer?
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Fortunately with all the intrest in beer recently there are normally plenty of other choices.
My OH loves their beers.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Given the series of nadirs reached by major breweries in the last 40 years, the revival of breweries (micro or otherwise) who are prepared to take a risk on punting new brews is fantastic, IMO.
I'm also not particularly fazed by bigbeer buying up small "craft" breweries, as most of them are taking a "hands off" approach - you don't fix something that ain't broke. It's like Dr Oetker (massive German food combine) owning about 40 of Germany's regional brewers, but totally not messing with anything to do with the supply chain or the production line, because they know not to piss off the consumers.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
don't worry, it's only a treelover argument so there's neither rhyme nor reason to it.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
or explanation. not for the first time either.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Fortunately with all the intrest in beer recently there are normally plenty of other choices.
That assumes a reason not to try this one.
Though yes, I think they are overpriced too.
330 ml beer bottles can fuck right off. Especially when they cost more than 500 ml ones.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Skol is crap. Tesco value baked beans on Tesco value white toast is best washed down with 2litres of Tesco cider.
Brewdog Punk IPA is £1.79 for 330ml of a 5.6% beer in Budgens in Islington. Which makes it my go-to option from their fridge. Tiny Rebel is only £2-and-change, but still not as nice
The whole point of 'craft brewing' was to lose the image real ale has of being made behind a shed in norfolk (and thus widen the market). Camden are selling millions of pints of beer a year through a thousand outlets - they are already a substantial, sophisticated organisation, and have never hid it (indeed, the sophistication of such breweries is part of their marketing schtick). So, no fraud.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It's not like they're promising beer and delivering lemonade to investors. That WOULD be fraud.
I question any idea that big company takeovers of small, originally independent breweries is risk free or cost free for the beer's quality and integrity (surely Urbans don't think this anyway?).
Sometimes additional investment will work very well and spread the word and availability of very good beer. I take the point from ViolentPanda on that. They have to be genuinely left alone though.
But other times, and there are examples, once decent beer will end up much blander because of the scale of its more popular/corporate version. The sheer ubiquity of certain beers can ring warning bells for me. I met the former head brewer of Sharps in September at an event we went to, he'd left them when Molson-Coors bought it out, and he had some interesting criticisms to make ... (not that Sharps were ever among my favourites, but I make a broader point)
Sometimes additional investment will work very well and spread the word and availability of very good beer. I take the point from ViolentPanda on that. They have to be genuinely left alone though.
But other times, and there are examples, once decent beer will end up much blander because of the scale of its more popular/corporate version. The sheer ubiquity of certain beers can ring warning bells for me. I met the former head brewer of Sharps in September at an event we went to, he'd left them when Molson-Coors bought it out, and he had some interesting criticisms to make ... (not that Sharps were ever among my favourites, but I make a broader point)
I read an article in Whats Brewing some years ago that was very complimentary of the Sharps take over, saying that in fact they had been pretty much left to do what they want: I take it that wasn't the case in reality?
I don't want to give the impression I'm all for multi-national brewers - far from it. I just disliked the semi-hysterical tones treelover introduced the subject of this takeover to the thread with. Camden is a substantial & ambitious brewery (ambitious to make money at least) and a lash-up with a multinational is the logical next step for a brewery of it's ilk. Anyone who thinks the craft tag is anything but marketing is totally deluded - and that isn't to say there aren't some fine beers being made - just that the ethos supposedly shared across the industry is only paid lip service to in the vast majority of cases. If other brewers appear cross at Camden for this, it's likely because for a second, the curtain has been pulled back.
I don't want to give the impression I'm all for multi-national brewers - far from it. I just disliked the semi-hysterical tones treelover introduced the subject of this takeover to the thread with. Camden is a substantial & ambitious brewery (ambitious to make money at least) and a lash-up with a multinational is the logical next step for a brewery of it's ilk. Anyone who thinks the craft tag is anything but marketing is totally deluded - and that isn't to say there aren't some fine beers being made - just that the ethos supposedly shared across the industry is only paid lip service to in the vast majority of cases. If other brewers appear cross at Camden for this, it's likely because for a second, the curtain has been pulled back.
TBH I never really got with the craft beer thing anyway - most of them are too hoppy and too strong for my palate. And before they came along, I generally found the product of microbreweries behind sheds in norfolk wildly variable - I much prefered a beer from one of the mid to large-size regional breweries - I could still be tempted by a pint of Tim Taylors Golden Best, if one passed in front of me. That level of complexity and balance of flavour seems very difficult for smaller breweries to manage, for some reason.
You're damned right about quality varying widely, and that some stuff considered by some to be cutting edge will taste overdone/extreme.
More another time because you raise some fair points.
More another time because you raise some fair points.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Did they change Doom Bar? I used to like it but now find it very bland. But it could just be my palate improving. Hard to tell sometimes...
Brewdog have made a statement on the topic, speaking of cross breweries.
NAILING OUR COLOURS TO THE MOTHER FUCKING MAST
NAILING OUR COLOURS TO THE MOTHER FUCKING MAST
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I wonder if they would sell though, for the right price. After all, if they really aren't in it for the money, why didn't they stay as a small brewer? Why do they own a string of pubs up and down the UK?
one of the comments was interesting - pointing out that the proposed new article of association could be made stronger. I doubt brewdog has crap lawyers and the choice of words was deliberately weak.
Greasy Boiler
Active Member
Which ones?
badseed
Mighty but thin.
Mountain Goat and Little Creatures sold to Asahi and Lion Nathan
Similar threads
