Brazil vs Croatia (Group A) Thursday 12th June 2014

[Athos]

I enjoy yelling at the ref and screaming about injustice. It's one of the many things that makes football one of the most unpredictable (and best) sports to watch.

I'm in it for the emotion, not the aesthetics.

Injuries, unlucky bounces etc - there'd still be the element of luck and unpredictability. Refereeing errors don't make for a better game.

 

[Lo Siento.]

I genuinely can't see how this would change if cheating was removed.

I couldn't complain about cheats anymore! Have you never watched a game where your team was on the sharp end of an obvious dive, then turned it around and won anyway and you got to spend half an hour taunting the little shit who did it?

 

[Onket]

I couldn't complain about cheats anymore! Have you never watched a game where your team was on the sharp end of an obvious dive, then turned it around and won anyway and you got to spend half an hour taunting the little shit who did it?

This has probably happened, yes. But I'd rather not have the cheating in the first place.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Injuries, unlucky bounces etc - there'd still be the element of luck and unpredictability. Refereeing errors don't make for a better game.

But you've taken the injustice out, you've removed the villains. And reffing errors don't make games worse. I mean, I don't think yesterday's soft pen affected the quality of what followed - in fact it made Croatia come and play a bit more.

 

[Lo Siento.]

This has probably happened, yes. But I'd rather not have the cheating in the first place.

Genuinely? You don't think your joy was all the more intense because of the injustice that preceeded it?

 

[Onket]

But you've taken the injustice out,

Wrong. There will still be the injustice of hitting the bar and the post twice, or bullying the other team all over the park and then them nicking it at the end. The injustice of a wicked deflection, etc. The list goes on.

you've removed the villains.

Wrong. There's still the player who goes in hard, the player who doesn't tap the dropped ball back to the other team with a few minutes to go, the other teams supporters, Old Bill, etc. This list also goes on.

And reffing errors don't make games worse. I mean, I don't think yesterday's soft pen affected the quality of what followed - in fact it made Croatia come and play a bit more.

Correct. But it's the cheating that needs to be punished, not the ref who was duped.

 

[Onket]

Genuinely? You don't think your joy was all the more intense because of the injustice that preceeded it?

Of course it was, but it doesn't resolve all the other occasions when a cheat has actually gone on to win.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But you've taken the injustice out, you've removed the villains. And reffing errors don't make games worse. I mean, I don't think yesterday's soft pen affected the quality of what followed - in fact it made Croatia come and play a bit more.

Yes, but it made the result wrong. I don't want to be crying about the 'hand of god'. I want to be drooling over Maradona's second goal.

 

[smmudge]

I like deception in a game, after all isn't that what tactics is all about? Well a little bit at least. Makes it more interesting anyway.

I thought Marcello's goal was pretty good.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I like deception in a game, after all isn't that what tactics is all about?

Deceiving the opposition players, surely. Not the ref.

Football's a good enough game not to need dishonest play to add to the interest.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Wrong. There will still be the injustice of hitting the bar and the post twice, or bullying the other team all over the park and then them nicking it at the end. The injustice of a wicked deflection, etc. The list goes on.

None of those are injustices, they're (a) missing (b) missing a lot and (c) defending badly respectively.

Wrong. There's still the player who goes in hard, the player who doesn't tap the dropped ball back to the other team with a few minutes to go, the other teams supporters, Old Bill, etc. This list also goes on.

Hang on, hang on, hang on, why have we only resolved diving? If we're making the game perfect why not punish bad tackles properly and put an end to petty time-wasting?

Correct. But it's the cheating that needs to be punished, not the ref who was duped.

I've no issue with yellows for diving. I don't think we need more retrospective action though, if you get away with, you get away with it...

 

[Lo Siento.]

Of course it was, but it doesn't resolve all the other occasions when a cheat has actually gone on to win.

Swings and roundabouts, innit.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Yes, but it made the result wrong. I don't want to be crying about the 'hand of god'. I want to be drooling over Maradona's second goal.

Did it make the result any more wrong than Croatia winning through a scrappy own goal that was their only shot would've done?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Genuinely? You don't think your joy was all the more intense because of the injustice that preceeded it?

You great big Romantic, you.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Did it make the result any more wrong than Croatia winning through a scrappy own goal that was their only shot would've done?

Yes. Because that's the game. It's up to Brazil to create chances and take them, and if they can't they may lose to a team playing negatively/poorly.

 

[heinous seamus]

Did it make the result any more wrong than Croatia winning through a scrappy own goal that was their only shot would've done?

Only shot my arse!

 

[Lo Siento.]

You great big Romantic, you.

Football is all about injustice, suffering, vengeance and redemption

 

[Lo Siento.]

Only shot my arse!

Pretty much was prior to the pen.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Yes. Because that's the game. It's up to Brazil to create chances and take them, and if they can't they may lose to a team playing negatively/poorly.

They're both part of the game. Great sides come through regardless...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They're both part of the game. Great sides come through regardless...

Except Brazil in 1982.

 

[smmudge]

Deceiving the opposition players, surely. Not the ref.

Football's a good enough game not to need dishonest play to add to the interest.

Yes that does seem to fit the definition of cheating quite well

I do agree though that for stuff like this it largely falls down to the ref. If we can depend on players to have integrity and play by the rules perfectly then there wouldn't be much point in having a ref at all.

 

[Badgers]

Nearly 500 posts on the opening game thread

More of this sort of thing!

 

[DotCommunist]

Nearly 500 posts on the opening game thread

More of this sort of thing!

tbf the last page has centred more on the ethics of true sportsmanship and how it was better in the olden days when footballers were gents and respectful.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Except Brazil in 1982.

and rob the world of "TARDELLI!"??!

 

[Lord Camomile]

Get yourself along to Union Berlin to watch a game Ed:

They really do know how to do it in Germany!

 

[passenger]

that penalty killed it for me. I was going mental in my front room god help me when England play

 

[Badgers]

that penalty killed it for me. I was going mental in my front room god help me when England play

It is a worry eh?

 

[big eejit]

If that match wasn't fixed then I'm Bonnie Tyler.

The ref was doing OK until about the hour mark when it became apparent that if anyone was going to win the game, it was Croatia. Suddenly there's a string of ridiculous decisions that have left the Croatians fuming and FIFA with some serious questions to answer. Which they won't of course.

 

[marty21]

I missed most of the second half as I fell asleep on the sofa - did I miss much?

 

[goldenecitrone]

I missed most of the second half as I fell asleep on the sofa - did I miss much?

Not as much as the referee.