Athos
Well-Known Member
Except Brazil in 1982.
And 1966, when Pele (who was at his very best) was hacked out of the tournament early.
Brazil vs Croatia (Group A) Thursday 12th June 2014
- Thread starter Badgers
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And 1966, when Pele (who was at his very best) was hacked out of the tournament early.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
I do.
And of all the myriad of things that football is really about, which group of 11 guys is better at football is the least of it by a long way.
Fez909
toilet expert
This post makes me sad
Athos
Well-Known Member
Fair enough; each to their own. But, in my experience, the majority of football fans would disagree that the game is enriched by cheating and refereeing mistakes.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Yeah, but moaning about the state of the game will still be one of their favourite pastimes.
Athos
Well-Known Member
That's probably true. I'll bet on day two, someone was moaning it wasn't as good as yesterday. And now I'm one of them; must be getting old!
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Why? All the drama and emotion around football is what makes it a great game. I could name a dozen games/sports off the top of my head which are more inherently interesting as a contest/sporting spectacle than football. (ie. test cricket and cycling touring for instance are streets ahead)This post makes me sad
Fez909
toilet expert
So answer me this: since cheating has become more prevalent - or perhaps just tacitly accepted, therefore more blatant - would you say the drama and emotion in the game has increased as a result?
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
I don't believe cheating has become more prevalent or more blatant.
Fez909
toilet expert
Fair enough. No point carrying on the conversation if you think that.
I think you're massively wrong, but whatever.
Athos
Well-Known Member
In terms of foul play, there's some truth in that, if only insofar as there are fewer brutal tackles now. But wouldn't you agree that diving has become more prevalent? And that it' harder for refs to spot than a straightforward old-fashioned Norman Hunter-esque ABH? And that more games are turning on dives?
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
What's happened over the past 20-30 years is that refereeing in general has become tighter on bad tackles. So back in the 1980s you could do this and have the commentator describe it as a bookable offence:
This is undoubtedly a good thing if you like attacking football with skillful players. A side effect of this is that referees give more marginal fouls and as a consequence people look for those marginal fouls. So you've moved from a situation where players like Souness used to cheat by near crippling players with cynical fouls, to one where players like Fred cheat by going down at the slightest contact.
Does that change represent a shift in honesty and integrity? Not for me.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Why would you have bothered diving prior to the change in tackling laws? If someone can damn near saw you in half and not even get a booking, what's the use in going down easily? Diving has become more prevalent as a side effect of better refereeing standards.
So yeah, more games turn on dives, because none were turning on dives before. It's still a pretty small percentage of games mind.
Athos
Well-Known Member
There's some truth in that. But I think more games turn on dives than you're acknowledging. Too many in my opinion, though I know you're willing to accept that as a trade-off for the controversy which you believe enriches the game. Personally, I'd try to stamp it out, by the methods previously mentioned. Apart from anything else it's embarrassing to see a grown mad fall to ground clutching his face because someone almost trod on his toe! And if my team were to win a trophy that way, it'd take the shine off it for me.
Except Brazil in 1982.
Best team never to win the cup and the last great Brazilian team following on from 1970. Today's Brazil isn't all that, Cesar wouldn't get a start in most if not all teams present in Brazil, he couldn't even get a place on QPR's bench in the Championship this year.
As for Neymar he's a poundshop Messi and a diving cunt with it.
Athos
Well-Known Member
It's a false dichotomy. Diving is not an inevitable consequence of penalising bad tackles; it, too, could be prevented if the will was there.
Fez909
toilet expert
It does make it more likely as there's now a reward which didn't exist previously, but as you say: it could be stamped out.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Graeme Souness could have stamped it out.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Wouldn't bother me or most football fans. In fact, most players who spend their time on the edge of legality become cult heros for the regulars going to the ground.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
*Shrugs* the ref can issue yellow cards. I'm not into trying to perfect refereeing off the pitch and after the game, tbh.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Hard tacklers, yes. Divers, not so much.
But I can see we're never going to agree, and there's not much more either of us can say. So I think I'll go and listen to the cricket.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
better game anyway.Hard tacklers, yes. Divers, not so much.
But I can see we're never going to agree, and there's not much more either of us can say. So I think I'll go and listen to the cricket.
(on divers, Leicester fans loved Robbie Savage, Steven Gerrard is a Liverpool legend etc etc.)
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Shall we change the word "nil" to "love"?
Yes
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Incidentally, access to video tech hasn't made cricket any better. It's just introduced new elements to argue about ad nauseum. The same would happen in football. Certainly no guarantee that Fred gets retrospectively yellowed for last night.
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