Bloody Sunday inquiry - coming soon

[maximilian ping]

Kicked off in 1998, had scores of witnesses and cost hundreds of millions of pounds - and is due out next month.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...le-inquiry-is-censored-relative-14736418.html

Let's hope 1. that it isn't a whitewash, 2. that it finds who is at fault (Edward Heath?) for this disaster 3. and whoever gets elected has the cahones to respond to the findings properly.

I think it's time the British government apologised to Ireland for the colonial/political fuck up (nice place though it is) that is Northern Ireland

 

[Kaka Tim]

Funnily enough I was in Derry last week and was talking to the people who run the troubles museum there (well worth a visit BTW - facinating, distubing and inspirational portrait of a communy struggle - and with no Sein Fein propogandor) and they were pretty cyncical about the ridiculous delay in this report being finalised - it all smacks of a process thats been deliberately dragged out in order to minmise damage to those responsible.

 

[maximilian ping]

If i was from Derry i would have given up on it years ago

 

[DotCommunist]

if it is anything other than a whitewash I will eat my hat sans condiments.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I suspect it will be the usual

"tragic .... mistakes made ... lessons learnt .... time to move on"

Followed by lots of puff in the r/wing press about those poor soldiers having to make split second decisions whilst under pressure putting down upitty paddies.

And Edward Heath will not be posthumously tried for mass murder.

 

[Chairman Meow]

My dad was a journalist in Derry, and wrote many hugely scornful and sceptical articles about this enquiry. Many people in Derry are cynical about it all, and I have heard many say the enormous amount of money it has cost could have been better spent, rather than going into the pockets of lawyers. I doubt very much that anything will be achieved by it, but my sympathies are with the bereaved, I'm sure if I was in their position I'd want some answers too.

 

[butchersapron]

Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

Soldiers face prosecution over fatal civilian shootings after 12-year inquiry publishes findings

The long-awaited report into the Bloody Sunday massacre will conclude that a number of the fatal shootings of civilians by British soldiers were unlawful killings, the Guardian has learned.

Lord Saville's 12-year inquiry into the deaths, the longest public inquiry in British legal history, will conclude with a report published next Tuesday, putting severe pressure on the Public Prosecution Service in Northern Ireland to prosecute soldiers.

The results of Saville's hearing will be released to the public at 3.30pm on Tuesday when David Cameron announces its publication to the House of Commons.

Up to 10,000 people are expected to march around lunchtime that day into Guildhall Square in Derry, where they will watch live reports about the inquiry's conclusions on giant television screens. They will trace the same route that the civil rights marchers had attempted to take on Bloody Sunday, which the Stormont government, dominated in 1972 by unionists, had banned.

Here's the get out they're likely to use:

The PPS, headed by Sir Alasdair Fraser, will make the decision on prosecutions because the killings occurred in its jurisdiction, rather than the Crown Prosecution Service in London. Fraser will have to take into account the public interest in a prosecution, and the likelihood of securing a conviction.

 

[dylans]

The PPS, headed by Sir Alasdair Fraser, will make the decision on prosecutions because the killings occurred in its jurisdiction, rather than the Crown Prosecution Service in London. Fraser will have to take into account the public interest in a prosecution, and the likelihood of securing a conviction.

Well there it is in black and white. The get out of jail free card. As if the public interest isn't served by justice.

 

[DotCommunist]

this isn't going to help relations between NI and england. As for the 'likelihood of securing a conviction' bit well any prosecutor would have access to 12 years worth of investigation and evidence.

 

[dylans]

If the past is ever to be put to sleep and if events of the past are to be prevented from infecting the future then an honest accounting and honest resolution of injustice are essential.

In Ireland, Israel, South Africa, Cambodia, anywhere,this is the lesson of history. Peace is impossible without justice.

 

[likesfish]

at least one of the paras on that day was a genuine pyscopath Costas Georgiou later shot by the angolians
don't think there was any great conspiracy. bogside considered out of control local battalion not getting a grip of the rioters send the paras in to crack heads.
Offical IRA shoot at paras from crowd paras shoot back and some paras deliberatly kill civillians
aplogies and compo to the familiys possibly criminal proceedings should have happened 30 years ago.

but former terrorists demanding justice is going to be a hard sell to make

 

[butchersapron]

So people whose loved ones were killed and who then had to wait 40 years for any thing approaching a proper inquiry are automatically terrorists?

 

[Idris2002]

So people whose loved ones were killed and who then had to wait 40 years for any thing approaching a proper inquiry are automatically terrorists?

Maybe he's referring to the Shinners, not the families. Or maybe it's that great likesfish stream-of-consciousness at work again.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course he is, but it's actually more a demonstration of an army mindset that led to Bloody Sunday- they're all the same, they're all terrorists.

 

[past caring]

but former terrorists demanding justice is going to be a hard sell to make

Leaving aside BA's point for a moment, why any harder than Sinn Fein sitting in the NI Assembley and taking ministerial posts in devolved government?

 

[Idris2002]

Of course he is, but it's actually more a demonstration of the army mindset that led to Bloody Sunday- they're all the same, they're all terrorists.

There's that story about the dimmer-than-average squaddie who said 'I don't mind the Catholics, it's the Fenians I can't stand'.

 

[likesfish]

I mean Sein fein coming out about Justice and peace.
The relatives deserve Justice not sure if thats going to be achievable this long after.

 

[Ax^]

I mean Sein fein coming out about Justice and peace.

I suppose the same sort of contempt should be shown whenever the british goverment go on about justice and peace ehh

 

[N_igma]

I mean Sein fein coming out about Justice and peace.

That has nothing to do with justice for those killed in the Troubles, it's about devolving policing and justice powers to the Stormont executive.

There has been a historical enquiries team looking into all the unsolved murders of the Troubles for a couple of years now anyway.

 

[likesfish]

If Widgery had done his job properly during the first inquiry, anyone who had been found guilty would have been released years ago under the Good Friday agreement. If the inquiry is not within the ambit of the agreement, a conviction for murder will carry a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment while a conviction for manslaughter leaves the court with a discretion to award a sentence up to and including life imprisonment. I am not surprised that the last government set up the inquity and refused to release it while they remained in power since the natural and probable consequence of any prosecution is that the terrorists who bombed and murdered over thirty years are now free men holding down jobs. Those who organised recruited and planned it are promoted to the United Kingdom legislature drawing a fat salary and pension paid for by the taxpayer while any former member of the Security Forces found guilty of murder or manslaughter as a result of this inquiry is, given his age, likely to die in jail. Doesn't really strike me as justice.
If you compare the treatment of armed coppers who kill by mistake.
As for the histroical murders review how many proescutions have resulted from that?

 

[Idris2002]

But Widgery did do his job properly, silly boy - he slapped on that whitewash good and thick.

I mind when I lived in Belfast, people would occasionally suggest that a Truth and Reconciliation Commission on the South African model would be the best way forward for NI. The problem there was that the central parties to the peace process (Westminster and the Army Council) didn't want to air their dirty linen in public, which was the price of amnesty if you did it the South African.

Maybe the Saville inquiry was a proxy (or fig leaf) for a wider historical accounting in Northern Ireland. 'History is the lie agreed upon' as Napoleon once said. Saville's compromised truths will be preferable to Widgery's lies.

 

[Idris2002]

I
If you compare the treatment of armed coppers who kill by mistake.

I don't think the paras killed 'by mistake', somehow.

 

[N_igma]

If Widgery had done his job properly during the first inquiry, anyone who had been found guilty would have been released years ago under the Good Friday agreement.

Erm no they wouldn't, that only applied to paramilitary prisoners.

I am not surprised that the last government set up the inquity and refused to release it while they remained in power since the natural and probable consequence of any prosecution is that the terrorists who bombed and murdered over thirty years are now free men holding down jobs.

What's that supposed to mean?

As for the histroical murders review how many proescutions have resulted from that?

Don't have an exact number but there have been a few convictions yes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If Widgery had done his job properly ...

Widgery couldn't do his job properly. Not only was he WAY too much an "establishment man", but he was suffering from senile dementia.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think the paras killed 'by mistake', somehow.

The only "mistake" the Paras make when killing is occasionally being so blatant that they (eventually) get busted for it.

 

[DotCommunist]

if it is anything other than a whitewash I will eat my hat sans condiments.

My hat appears to be free of threat. It's not murder when the state does it to a civilian you know.

 

[Mitre10]

.

And Edward Heath will not be posthumously tried for mass murder.

This is one thing I've never quite understood; why put anyone on trial posthumously??

It won't change a thing and will (inexplicably) cost tens if not hundreds of thousands to take it to trial.

Nonsense, and I would say the same thing if I was a family member of one of those killed. Just seems ridiculous.

 

[kebabking]

Erm no they wouldn't, that only applied to paramilitary prisoners.

i can't imagine that their legal team would have much trouble convincing the supreme court that it was grosely unfair that one 'combatant' in a 'war' could be convicted and not serve a sentence, while the another in the same position would have to serve the sentence.

that'll run counter to any number of clauses within the HRA, the SC will fuck it off at the high port, and the government certainly isn't going to appeal.

 

[Deareg]

i can't imagine that their legal team would have much trouble convincing the supreme court that it was grosely unfair that one 'combatant' in a 'war' could be convicted and not serve a sentence, while the another in the same position would have to serve the sentence.

that'll run counter to any number of clauses within the HRA, the SC will fuck it off at the high port, and the government certainly isn't going to appeal.

it applied to everyone done in a diplock court, or for a scheduled offence as they called it, one fella who was in on a rape charge applied for release and was actually given a date to be freed, thankfully his case was revued and it was overturned

 

[likesfish]

Bet Daves happy this is ending up on his watch
blair played a blinder setting this in motion and being well clear when it goes off.

there never be another enquiry like it cost way too much took way too long

doubt it will resolve anything