Big Tommy Liar Nicked in Perjury Probe

[danny la rouge]

Oh I'm afraid if you're going to talk morals then his accuser can very much be held up in the light.

I have no idea what your point is.

You seem to have divided the world into two easy to understand chunks: those who support Tommy in everything he does, and those who don't. You will not find anyone here supporting the NotW, but you persist in the bizarre notion that those critical of Tommy must be supporters of the NotW. It's just fallacious. I do not support the NotW, the story about Tommy's sex life was none of their business, and had he handled his response differently I would be amongst those saying leave him alone.

But he didn't. My criticism is the way, as 4thwrite so eloquently put it, "Sheridan has fucked over everyone in sight". If you don't get that, then you are blinded by leader worship or something. My guess is that you do get it, but have invested so much emotional capital in it that you now can't admit it.

You continue to rage at those SSP members who were called as witnesses to the defamation action Tommy instigated. As Newbie asked, what action should Tommy's colleagues have taken once he had invited the courts in?

 

[Wilf]

And a great many right-wingers want to see that trashed.

Do you think the people criticising Tommy on this thread are right wingers?

 

[Wilf]

. My guess is that you do get it, but have invested so much emotional capital in it that you now can't admit it.

To be honest Dexter, that's my best guess as well.

Mind, I suppose things like this must be easy for members of the SWP. George Galloway goes from being the best thing since sliced bread to pariah and opportunist in the blink of a Central Committee meeting. Your continuing loyalty to Sheridan is at least a step up from that.

 

[laptop]

IF Tommy lied, then <thinks: "lawyer"; rewrites> on the face of it a case could be made against those who gave evidence for him?

 

[Wilf]

IF Tommy lied, then <thinks: "lawyer"; rewrites> on the face of it a case could be made against those who gave evidence for him?

they'll almost certainly get re-interviewed. Be interesting to see if they decide to hold the original line and link their own fate to his - or abandon him, if they can get some guarantee of non-prosecution themselves. Imagine they won't be sleeping too easily at the moment -either way. What a tangled web we weave...

Edit: better throw in the odd 'allegedly' here, but some definite echoes of the Archer case in this. Didn't the guy who supported him in the first (winning) trial turn prosecution witness in the perjury trial (though he died before the actual hearing)?

 

[DexterTCN]

You continue to rage at those SSP members who were called as witnesses to the defamation action Tommy instigated. As Newbie asked, what action should Tommy's colleagues have taken once he had invited the courts in?

I don't rage at them, I said they betrayed their principles (yup) for siding with the NotW on this matter. One wonders how the NotW were informed about the meeting's minutes in the first place. There's your problem.

And as to Newbies question, I already answered when I said they should have acted 'in solidarity'.

 

[newbie]

shouldn't solidarity work both ways? If he really did go to a EC meeting and tell his comrades that the NoTW allegations were true, he compromised every person in the room. He was told not to sue yet he drew them into a conspiracy, whether they were willing or not.

Of course, the conspiracy may be against TS, the minutes concocted and every word he says is true. That would at least explain how Murdochs lawyers got the minutes- or maybe they figured that a meeting at which a political party ditched its leader would surely be minuted and went fishing.

btw there's a handy who-said-what here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5231208.stm

 

[danny la rouge]

One wonders how the NotW were informed about the meeting's minutes in the first place. There's your problem.

It isn't really, though, is it? The meeting was known to have taken place - not least because Tommy was referring to it by the time he'd made it public he was pursuing the NotW. Having filed his suit, the NotW lawyers were going to seek out any documentation to make their case. And Alan McCombs went to prison rather than hand over these minutes; minutes Tommy appealed to the party to be handed over.

However, even if minutes hadn't existed, once Tommy had brought his defamation case, witnesses were going to be called. Not only would that include the journalist Tommy had been visiting swingers' clubs with, but also his colleagues and associates. That's how it works. He knew this, and he expected them to spout his story under oath, knowing full well their evidence would be false and would be contradicted by what ever the NotW had.

That brings us to "acting in solidarity"; what does that mean to you? Blindly putting the Great Leader first even when he is wrong? Giving a hostage to fortune? Why risk the reputation of everyone when it was unnecessary?

We are talking here about Tommy's ego. He wanted people to risk their reputations for his ego, not some justified struggle. All he had to say was:

"Who listens to the NotW?"
"Yes I swing, who cares?"
"I've been a fool, but Gail forgives me"
"Mind your own business"

Or some other formulation.

 

[danny la rouge]

Of course, the conspiracy may be against TS, the minutes concocted and every word he says is true. [...] or maybe [the NotW] figured that a meeting at which a political party ditched its leader would surely be minuted and went fishing.

This is the nub. Were all of Tommy's colleagues conspiritors and liars, or was the NotW story true? If the former, then their behaviour is unforgivable. If the latter, then Tommy's is.

 

[DexterTCN]

...That brings us to "acting in solidarity"; what does that mean to you? Blindly putting the Great Leader first even when he is wrong? Giving a hostage to fortune? Why risk the reputation of everyone when it was unnecessary?

We are talking here about Tommy's ego. He wanted people to risk their reputations for his ego, not some justified struggle. All he had to say was:

"Who listens to the NotW?"
"Yes I swing, who cares?"
"I've been a fool, but Gail forgives me"
"Mind your own business"

Or some other formulation.

Just miss out the stuff about cocaine, LaRouge, because it doesn't fit in with your argument. It's ok, no-one minds.

So you continue to deny the fact that the Murdoch empire has waged a long-running campaign against the Left in Scotland at the behest of the parties in England (and their Scottish siblings)?

Bigger picture , mate.

 

[newbie]

of couirse they're out to get him, both for his politics and because he's a sleb and celebrity + sex + drugs sells.

I don't know if the allegations are true, but if they are, they're obviously damaging. If he'd gone down fighting, lying his head off if need be, he'd have been widely supported across the left, probably by everyone including a lot of his direct political enemies. Few want to see the socialist initiatives brought down by Murdoch.

But by compromising his fellow EC members, and expecting them to lie on his behalf, he crossed a line. Surely you can see that?

 

[danny la rouge]

Just miss out the stuff about cocaine, LaRouge, because it doesn't fit in with your argument. It's ok, no-one minds.

What about "the stuff about cocaine"? The alleged cocaine orgy is the Glasgow hotel? What is your point?

So you continue to deny the fact that the Murdoch empire has waged a long-running campaign against the Left in Scotland

Where have I said that? Nowhere. You're just making stuff up, to fit your bizarre black and white picture. News International is a nasty, right-wing, anti union, anti working class, anti left organisation, run by a thoroughly unpleasant man. I have said several times I do not defend Murdoch or the NotW. You just think anyone critical of Tommy must be in the pay of Murdoch. Or at least you pretend you think that.

 

[Wilf]

Just miss out the stuff about cocaine, LaRouge, because it doesn't fit in with your argument. It's ok, no-one minds.

So you continue to deny the fact that the Murdoch empire has waged a long-running campaign against the Left in Scotland at the behest of the parties in England (and their Scottish siblings)?

Bigger picture , mate.

Yes, you're right, everybody on this thread has been denying that.

Actually, I think this post is pretty revealing of your motivations in this matter - particularly the highlighted bit. I'm pretty sure you realise Tommy Sheridan is a liar - but are quite happy to see him do that in the 'bigger battle' against a scummy media mogul. If that's the case, you want to have good look at the link about means and ends.

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

Socialists are cunts - and Sheridan is one of the worst.

 

[butchersapron]

How's the Phd going Kenny?

 

[Wilf]

How's the Phd going Kenny?

the thesis is somewhat underdeveloped, though he may pull it round on the viva

 

[danny la rouge]

:d !

 

[DexterTCN]

Where have I said that? (that Murdoch's empire has conducted a long-running campaign against Socialists) Nowhere. You're just making stuff up, to fit your bizarre black and white picture.

brackets by me

Yawn. Nothing black and white about my views. The bigger picture shows that there is more going on than a libel/perjury action and my loyalties lie with the Socialist roots of Scotland and defending them whether they are socialism, 'old' labour or whatever.

You take the view that the only things that count are the facts of this specific case. Well...that's what you say.

I disagree.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Seems the people's champion may have Donald 'The Sash' Findlay in his corner when the trial comes:

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/the-radical-and-the-high.3607010.jp

 

[butchersapron]

A braver fighter for socialism i've yet to come across.

 

[danny la rouge]

my loyalties lie with the Socialist roots of Scotland and defending them whether they are socialism, 'old' labour or whatever.

Good for you.

I now understand that Tommy fucking over everyone around him because he was embarrassed his hobby had come to light is a way of defending socialism.

 

[DexterTCN]

Yeah well.

At the end of the day I'm the only one standing up for him here. I'm not bothered, I've seen most of you post 100s of times in P&P and I know your general views on this area inside out.

I still hope he shits on this new trial as well.

Ooooh. Donald Findlay.

Who've you lot hoping for as judge? Lord Hutton?

 

[danny la rouge]

Who've you lot hoping for as judge? Lord Hutton?

No, George Jeffreys.

 

[rover07]

Nationalise the top 200 companies.....

 

[rover07]

I don't know anything about this sex and drugs scandal. But Tommy Sheridan played a big part in organising the anti-poll tax movement and getting Thatcher kicked out. So he's ok by me, if he lied in court...so what?

And screwed some money out of the NoW.... great!

 

[Fullyplumped]

Solidarity is no more as an electoral force. Its only elected councillor, Ruth Black, has joined the ruling Labour Group on Glasgow City Council.

I wish I could claim this as a victory for Labour, but I'd rather not. Her record has been very poor. Interestingly, she didn't seem to want to go back to the SSP.

 

[danny la rouge]

if he lied in court...so what?

Well, read the thread to see so what. I'd agree with you, were it not for the fact that his strategy inevitably meant trampling all over his comrades and ex-lovers.

 

[Frostys Lodger]

Solidarity is no more as an electoral force. Its only elected councillor, Ruth Black, has joined the ruling Labour Group on Glasgow City Council.

I wish I could claim this as a victory for Labour, but I'd rather not. Her record has been very poor. Interestingly, she didn't seem to want to go back to the SSP.

Do you think they would have had her back after the incident involving her partner and the tyres of the car belonging to the SSP national secretary ?.


Black joined the SSP in 1999 and was reletively inactive until the period just before the split. She then became hyperactive in Sheridans support but fell out with the Sheridans after being elected and did nothing much thereafter until getting recruited to NuLab by Purcell.

Proves that the Squalids were prepared to recruit anyone-a bit like Respect under Galloway.

 

[Karac]

The last thing this is is Clintonesque. It isn't about sex, it is about a class traitor betraying his own people because he couldn't face up to his responsibilities. Nobody gives a shit about his swinging. Doesn't matter a fuck, but what does matter is how he dragged everyone into the mire with his cowardly kicking and screaming.

He was given good advice by his colleagues, and he chose not to take it. He sued the NotW. He should not have.

I heard him on the News just now. As usual he is failing to take responsibility for his own actions. Well, Hell mind him; he is a class traitor who tried to hang out his own comrades to dry, putting them in an impossible situation, dragging his former lovers through the courts and the glare of publicity, wrecking their lives, calling them liars when it was he who was the liar, and splitting the most successful parliamentary socialist party since the ILP. All his doing, all of it avoidable, and all in the vain hope of salving his personal vanity. Twat.

top post

 

[Dave Mullen]

Socialists are cunts - and Sheridan is one of the worst.

Away you go and suck Jon Gaunt's cock you braindead Tory cunt.