Big Tommy Liar Nicked in Perjury Probe

[danny la rouge]

That'll be it. It's nothing to do with the way the News of the Screws makes money by flogging papers that are full of sexual tittle-tattle about all sorts of famous and semi-famous people, including politicians from the Tory Party, the Lib Dems, Labour and so on. No, no - it's different with Big Tommy. Entirely different. Honest.

The thing is that if Tommy didn't want the story to come out, he might have tried not swinging with a well-known tabloid journalist over several years.

Then he had the choice to manage the news better when it came out, and he chose the worst possible course: bringing a defamation case when they were essentially telling the truth. And to do that it meant traducing his comrades and lovers, and splitting the movement he was so instrumental in building.

Remember, the state didn't intervene; Tommy invited it in.

 

[DexterTCN]

That'll be it. It's nothing to do with the way the News of the Screws makes money by flogging papers that are full of sexual tittle-tattle about all sorts of famous and semi-famous people, including politicians from the Tory Party, the Lib Dems, Labour and so on. No, no - it's different with Big Tommy. Entirely different. Honest.

You disingenuously make your case as usual.

The jury took less than 3 hours to find in favour of Sheridan, having decided for themselves who they thought was telling the truth. In every case someone is lying. And in this case the jury sided with Tommy, much to the anger of the usual suspects here.

Being a criminal trial, will he have to prove his innocence to a higher standard than the NotW had to in the first case, no comments on that then? Are the police now going to look into every case where two sides' evidence have been contradictory, taking a year to investigate everyone who's statements clashed?

No they will not.

 

[newbie]

not every trial has two sets of elected politicians who flatly contradict each other about what happened at a meeting. Both sides had public reputations to preserve.

and... no, being a criminal trial the allegations against him have to be proven to the higher standard. If it comes down to just his word against his political opponents we'll be no further forward. As with Aitken or Archer, it has to be shown beyond reasonable doubt that he lied in court.

 

[danny la rouge]

the anger of the usual suspects here.

The "usual suspects"? You mean people who don't like self serving class traitors?

As to your references to Tommy winning his case, you might like to look up the phrase "Pyrrhic victory", and think about that a bit.

 

[DexterTCN]

The "usual suspects"? You mean people who don't like self serving class traitors?

As to your references to Tommy winning his case, you might like to look up the phrase "Pyrrhic victory", and think about that a bit.

I suggest you look up 'jury takes less than 3 hours'.

As to self serving class traitors...Sheridan never took Murdoch's coin nor side.

 

[danny la rouge]

He invited the state in to the socialist movement, didn't he? With its court summonses and powers of conviction.

 

[DexterTCN]

The "usual suspects"? You mean people who don't like self serving class traitors?

Fucking breathtaking, by the way. Rouge top, more like.

There's no point talking to you lot.

 

[danny la rouge]

I note you are not replying to my post about Tommy inviting the state in. He didn't need to, but he is the one who unleashed the courts, no one else.

 

[JHE]

Being a criminal trial, will he have to prove his innocence to a higher standard than the NotW had to in the first case, no comments on that then?

Nonsense! If this criminal matter comes to trial, it is the prosecution that will have to prove its case to a higher standard - i.e., beyond reasonable doubt.

The defence doesn't have to prove anything - and will succeed if it manages to persuade the jury that there is reasonable doubt over the guilt of the accused.

Are the police now going to look into every case where two sides' evidence have been contradictory, taking a year to investigate everyone who's statements clashed?

I doubt it, but it is not the first time a vain litigious politician has been pursued for his perjury. Archer, Aitken...

 

[danny la rouge]

Archer was undone because he lied in order to win damages from the Star. He was jailed for perjury more than a decade after he won his libel case, and as well as being jailed, he had to repay the damages, and to repay £1 million in costs.

It is a fair point to say that every time a guilty party pleads not guilty and forces a trial, he or she is technically committing perjury. However, during the civil case, Tommy was not charged with anything, and he was not on trial; on the contrary he brought a defamation case and sought damages. If the police and the PF believe he has a case to answer, it is because they think he won those damages fraudulently. Which was exactly what happened with Archer.

And which, incidentally, is exactly why Tommy's comrades declined to lie for him: it would have been tactically stupid, put them in danger of jail and financial penalty if found out, and wasn't necessary.

 

[Wilf]

As to self serving class traitors...Sheridan never took Murdoch's coin nor side.

No, he took £25,000 from the Daily Record.

 

[DexterTCN]

No, he took £25,000 from the Daily Record.

Yes...a Scottish left of centre newspaper...your point?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yes...a Scottish left of centre newspaper...your point?

He's got you there, you know.

 

[nwnm]

socialist workers take on this -

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=13819

 

[Fullyplumped]

socialist workers take on this - http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=13819

That is not what I'd call fulsome support. You'd get more passion and solidarity off the teletext news pages.

 

[DexterTCN]

He's got you there, you know.

He didn't 'get' anything.

A Scottish left of centre MP writing for a Scottish left of centre newspaper is in no fucking way any kind of class treachery.

 

[Fullyplumped]

He didn't 'get' anything.

A Scottish left of centre MP writing for a Scottish left of centre newspaper is in no fucking way any kind of class treachery.

I meant you'd got him there, I think. But I don't think the papers of the Trinity Mirror Group are especially left-of-centre.

 

[danny la rouge]

left of centre newspaper

Daily Record says:"Stabbed Turk Firsat conned his way in as asylum seeker".

Record's front page headline - which should surely go into some tabloid hall of shame - proclaimed: "Stabbed Turk Firsat conned his way in as asylum seeker".

its message could not have been clearer: his death, even if lamentable, was excusable because he was an illegal immigrant

.

 

[JHE]

I meant you'd got him there, I think.

You can't even agree with some people without them getting all stroppy about it! That's Scots for you, I suppose.

<runs away to pub>

 

[cantsin]

was a fully paid up member of the "GRASS !!!" shouting brigade with regards to post Trafalgar Square Sheridan/ Nellist , but 16 yrs later find it hard to revel in his misfortunes re: all this shit tbh . Not madly bothered , but surprised how much so many other people on here seem to enjoy it .

 

[DexterTCN]

Daily Record says:"Stabbed Turk Firsat conned his way in as asylum seeker".

Record's front page headline - which should surely go into some tabloid hall of shame - proclaimed: "Stabbed Turk Firsat conned his way in as asylum seeker".
.

A BBC and a Grauniad link? Methinks there's been a google.

I think it would be far more appropriate if you were to link to what he had written in the paper instead of your usual frantic efforts to tar and smear.

Talk about tabloid.

 

[Wilf]

He didn't 'get' anything.

A Scottish left of centre MP writing for a Scottish left of centre newspaper is in no fucking way any kind of class treachery.

He didn't get the £25,000 for 'writing' though, did he? It was for an interview in matching bathrobes - following his £200,000 from the court. Seem to remember his wife also got a column out of this, giving beauty tips.

Left of Centre or Right of Hello?

 

[Wilf]

A BBC and a Grauniad link? Methinks there's been a google.

I think it would be far more appropriate if you were to link to what he had written in the paper instead of your usual frantic efforts to tar and smear.

Talk about tabloid.

Okay, if you want another source, here's socialist worker
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=1093

I tried to find the story from the Daily Record archive, but for some reason it's no longer available...

 

[DexterTCN]

Okay, if you want another source, here's socialist worker
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=1093

I tried to find the story from the Daily Record archive, but for some reason it's no longer available...

What are you saying then?

I say that the Record is a left of centre Scottish tabloid, that Sheridan did not sell out by (oh my god the horror) talking about bathrobes and getting paid for it.

I say that only the ones who can be seen, in a class sense and a political sense, to have sided with Murdoch should be the subject of this accusation of treachery. If talking about bathrobes, thanks for that btw, is the new treachery then it looks bad for all you wet blankets.

 

[danny la rouge]

I think it would be far more appropriate if you were to link to what he had written in the paper

Don't be ridiculous, you know perfectly well I wasn't commenting on what Tommy had written. I was pointing out to those outside of Scotland that your claims that the Record is some kind of virtuous paper is wide of the mark.

The Record is a nasty, scurrilous rag, happy to play the race card in the wake of a murder. Anyone familiar with the paper could have reminded you of that disgraceful front page, or countless other stories, or the paper's industrial relations record, or the fact they had topless page three photos until relatively recently, or whatever.

So not a virtuous paper.

However, if you had asked, you would have discovered that I do think high profile socialists should write for mass circulation papers if they get the chance. That only makes sense.

 

[newbie]

I say that only the ones who can be seen, in a class sense and a political sense, to have sided with Murdoch should be the subject of this accusation of treachery.

I'm sorry I don't understand your position. Either TS told the SSP executive that he'd been to swinger clubs or he didn't. Having been forced into court, the minutes and many of those present say he did, yet you accuse them of treachery. Are you saying they lied to help Murdoch? I really don't get what you expected them to do.

 

[DexterTCN]

Don't be ridiculous, you know perfectly well I wasn't commenting on what Tommy had written. I was pointing out to those outside of Scotland that your claims that the Record is some kind of virtuous paper is wide of the mark.

I see you haven't broken out of your habit of making nonsense up when things don't go your way.

My statement was that a left of centre MSP writing articles in a left of centre tabloid is in no way the same as "taking Murdoch's coin".

Your (by now familiar) explosion of rage about my claims of the paper being virtuous are slightly marred by the fact that I have said no such thing.

I would also add that I wouldn't mind him writing for the Sun if he was putting across a message that fit in with his political creed. 'Taking the coin' has an entirely different connotation.

 

[danny la rouge]

I really don't get what you expected them to do.

He expects them to stand by the Great Leader, no matter what.

(Even when he's taking a ridiculous course of action they advised him not to take, which they predicted would end in disaster, and which involved him traducing his comrades - even one who went to prison in an attempt to protect Tommy's confidentiality, and dragging his lovers' sex-lives through the courts. For what? Why did he not just say: "I never pay any attention to NotW stories and neither should you", or something of the sort?).

 

[danny la rouge]

I see you haven't broken out of your habit of making nonsense up when things don't go your way.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Paul Marsh]

My statement was that a left of centre MSP writing articles in a left of centre tabloid is in no way the same as "taking Murdoch's coin".

But he did take Murdoch's coin - literally.

He sued the News of the World, against the advice of his party colleagues, dragging them through the mill for what appears highly likely to have been a pyrrhic victory.

You may have fallen for Tommy's "Socialist sword of truth, and trusty Scottish shield of fair play" act, but I'm afraid all I see is a Scottish version of Jonathan Aitken, heading for exactly the same personal disaster.