Big Tommy Liar Nicked in Perjury Probe

[DexterTCN]

(1) But he did take Murdoch's coin - literally.

(2) He sued the News of the World, against the advice of his party colleagues, dragging them through the mill for what appears highly likely to have been a pyrrhic victory.

You may have fallen for Tommy's "Socialist sword of truth, and trusty Scottish shield of fair play" act, but I'm afraid all I see is a Scottish version of Jonathan Aitken, heading for exactly the same personal disaster.

(1) No he sued them, he didn't suck cock. If you don't understand the words don't argue with them...taking someone's coin has a specific connotation.

(2) He sued and won, and if you're bleating for his so called colleagues please don't forget to mention that some of them went on to write anti-Tommy pieces for the Murdoch media, betraying everything they claimed to have stood for.

Please explain your use of the word 'Pyrrhic' because it's beyond me.

(3) You're using quotes when none exist.

"Socialist sword of truth, and trusty Scottish shield of fair play"

is merely a twisted version of Aitken's statement when he was taking kickbacks in a bent arms deal as a Tory Minister. What is it with you people that you think you can just wade through arguments making shit up to make you seem correct?

Fake quotes from me, fake quotes from Sheridan...very NotW.

Perhaps one of you would like to show where Sheridan has actually sold out on his political beliefs or where he has traded them in for expediency?

And I'd like the names of the MPs you support, thanks. No point having mud slinging if you can only give it but can't take it.

And as a final point...if Sheridan did lie in court and get one over on the Murdoch empire...good. I'm all for that.

 

[JHE]

And as a final point...if Sheridan did lie in court and get one over on the Murdoch empire...good. I'm all for that.

But not so good for Big Tommy's comrades, not so good for the SSP and, if Big Tommy gets convicted of perjury, not so good for him either!

 

[newbie]

And as a final point...if Sheridan did lie in court and get one over on the Murdoch empire...good. I'm all for that.

Him lying is one thing, but to carry it through required that others on the SSP executive should have lied about what he said to them.

Is that really what you're saying? seriously??

You want that the key players in a political party should lie to the press, should lie to the courts, should lie to their constituents and should lie to the working class as a whole. In order to protect the reputation of one man against sexual tittle tattle from the news of the screws.

 

[danny la rouge]

(2) He sued and won [...] Please explain your use of the word 'Pyrrhic' because it's beyond me.

The effect on his movement, a movement he was so instrumental in building, was far more devastating than any blow he struck against the Murdoch Empire. And what is his standing now? He used to be someone people respected as decent and committed. And after the perjury trial? Sadly, as predicted, this isn't over yet.

To reiterate Newbie's perfectly reasonable question to you, what course of action should his comrades have taken once Tommy had invited in the state by bringing his defamation action? He knew they'd be called; what do you think they should have done? (Remember one went to jail in an attempt to maintain Tommy's confidentiality).

 

[DexterTCN]

To reiterate Newbie's perfectly reasonable question to you, what course of action should his comrades have taken once Tommy had invited in the state by bringing his defamation action? He knew they'd be called; what do you think they should have done? (Remember one went to jail in an attempt to maintain Tommy's confidentiality).

You'll forgive me if I don't take yourself as the judge of 'perfectly reasonable', being a person who said Sheridan should be executed some while back because you disagree with him politically.

Still waiting on answers to which MP/MSPs you all support.

 

[danny la rouge]

Still waiting on answers to which MP/MSPs you all support.

There are no MSPs or MPs I support. I did used to have quite a bit of time for the Tommy-era SSP, but I don't support any party. As I've told you before.

Again, though: what action should Tommy's colleagues have taken once he had unleashed the courts?

 

[Wilf]

You'll forgive me if I don't take yourself as the judge of 'perfectly reasonable', being a person who said Sheridan should be executed some while back because you disagree with him politically.

Still waiting on answers to which MP/MSPs you all support.

If that's a general invite, for me: none

I'm an equal opportunity critic

Go on, admit it, you're wearing a bathrobe now aren't you

 

[newbie]

I'm going out now so I don't suppose it matters that I'm being ignored, but it's a bit puzzling, since all I've done is ask for clarification.

As to supporting politicians, the problem is they're all fallible so, although it's not always as stark as it appears here, the choice comes down to that between personal loyalty and wider integrity. politics is venal.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Just so Dexter can understand:

A Pyrrhic victory (IPA: /'pɪr ɪk/ -) is a victory with devastating cost to the victor

A pretty perfect description of Tommy's 'triumph'.

The fact that Sheridan had no need to sue, and indeed was instructed not to by his comrades, makes the unfolding events all the more tragic.

Sheridan could have said "my private life is my own business" or equally "the capitalist courts are loaded against the individual, so I will not sue" or even "yes it is true, but so what?" instead he chose to go on the attack against accusations that many people - including myself - believe were grounded in fact.

But to spell out the seriousness, if he has taken money off the News of the World for allegations that were true, he has committed not just perjury but fraud, and faces the same fate as two other political liars of recent years - Jonathan Aitken and Jeffrey Archer.

If so, those like me who remember Sheridan's desire to "name names" of poll tax rioters in 1990, will be raising a glass of beer in celebration when that cell door slams shut.

 

[Wilf]

If so, those like me who remember Sheridan's desire to "name names" of poll tax rioters in 1990, will be raising a glass of beer in celebration when that cell door slams shut.

Clinks glass with Paul, in anticipation

E2a: the word 'clink' should be taken as the sound of 2 glasses coming together in celebration. Any reference to the place Tommy will be spending the next couple of years is purely coincidental

 

[DexterTCN]

It was a resounding victory, not Pyrrhic. The party splitting after this was rank immaturity and they all got what they deserved - nothing at the polls.

Defending himself without a lawyer he overcame the corporate might of one of the world's biggest politically aggressive entities. An entity with a regular habit of going after left-wing Scots activists.

You seem to be suggesting that he stand by while NotW printed stories saying he was snorting coke and swigging champagne?

Of course if it comes to court we can only hope that the NotW 'secret recording' of Sheridan will be fully investigated. And the alleged bugging of his car earlier this year.

 

[danny la rouge]

The party splitting after this was rank immaturity and they all got what they deserved

A truly Orwellian re-write. It was Tommy who left.

 

[Wilf]

It was a resounding victory, not Pyrrhic. The party splitting after this was rank immaturity and they all got what they deserved - nothing at the polls.

Defending himself without a lawyer he overcame the corporate might of one of the world's biggest politically aggressive entities. An entity with a regular habit of going after left-wing Scots activists.

At what point in those two paragraphs did you hit the vinegar stroke?

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

Perhaps one of you would like to show where Sheridan has actually sold out on his political beliefs or where he has traded them in for expediency?

* his "hilarious" sexist and racist chatshow at the fringe (roll over Jim Davidson)
* insisting that he had the right to a private life and then splashing (his version of) it all over the tabloids for money.
* using prostitutes
* his defence of the Enron 3
* threatening to shop people in the poll tax riot

And as a final point...if Sheridan did lie in court and get one over on the Murdoch empire...good. I'm all for that.

Regardless of who was hurt, damaged or betrayed along the way? Thats not socialism thats egotism. .

The bourgoise courts are a rich mans game, a socialist should not be involving them except where truth and the law can be used against the establishment and make genuine changes - not to extract cash. ...and the only changes that will be made as a result of this case is that smaller and poorer publications will think again about exposing hypocritical but popular/ist politicians.

There is now a very real situation that a two year old child could be left without the care of either of their parents because Sheridan was too stupid, egotistical and arrogant to take very good advise just to keep his mouth shut and let it all blow over.

 

[DexterTCN]

I was at his chat show, I posted about it at the time and although it wasn't very good it certainly was nothing like Jim Davidson (racist and sexist) ...again with the rubbish eh?

Splashing his life all over the tabloids? Missed that one, sorry.

Shopping people for what at the poll tax riots?

As I recall Sheridan was sentenced to 6 months in jail for stopping warrant sales during the poll tax years, bringing lot's of publicity to it which fucked off Thatcher and her mate...Rupert Murdoch.

 

[DexterTCN]

Regardless of who was hurt, damaged or betrayed along the way?

And you're defending The News of the World on these grounds, right?

A fucking rag from a stable that does nothing but print shit about people and show young girls' tits (Kerry Katona at 16, centre page spread)? You're defending '45 Minutes From Doom!' for this?

A paper that uses racism, sexism, jingoism, Hillsborough, 'Bonkers Bruno Locked Up!', constant attacks against gays (lost a libel against Elton John about rent boys iirc), bugging the Royals....I could go on.

Make sure and balance out your savage anger, boys. Not that far from a mob.

 

[danny la rouge]

And you're defending The News of the World on these grounds, right?

Nobody is defending the NotW. What a ridiculous comment, but not entirely unexpected from someone with your capacity for subtle thought.

What's more, the story about Tommy's sex life was none of their business.

What people are critical of is Tommy's response. And rightly so, given the cost. This is not the same as "defending The News of the World".

 

[DexterTCN]

Nobody is defending the NotW. What a ridiculous comment, but not entirely unexpected from someone with your capacity for subtle thought.

Oh I'm afraid if you're going to talk morals then his accuser can very much be held up in the light.

 

[Wilf]

I detest the News of the World. Is that clear?

If any of Sheridan's opponents got paid for writing anything in the News of the World/for their story (which is, i presume, the substance of the 'taking the NoW coin' allegation) they were unprincipled and stupid. Is that clear?

None of that detracts one iota for the way Sheridan has fucked over everyone in sight. And fucked them over for what? Lets not pretend there's even a sliver of politics in this. He had the same politics as his accusers. Its purely about ego and his willingness to trash anyone he previously worked with and had a relationship with to defend his ego. Its also about the psychology of the 'big man' in politics. When everything else becomes subordinate to ego and the avoidance of losing face, well, this kind of ship wreck isn't far away.

The saddest thing about this, is that Sheridan probably went along to the meeting where he was going to demand the rest of the SSP leadership without even a hint that they might find this problematic. He'd reached the point where he believed his own interests were exactly the same as those of the party as a whole. Manages to be scary, weird and sad all at the same time.

 

[DexterTCN]

If your premise is correct then Sheridan was correct as well. His interests were also the party's.

 

[newbie]

but the party exists only to promote the interests of the working class, so in fact lying to the w/c was in their own interests and they ought to be grateful.

 

[JHE]

but the party exists only to promote the interests of the working class, so in fact lying to the w/c was in their own interests and they ought to be grateful.

Quite right, comrade.

The Person of the Great Leader embodies the Truth and Vitality of the Party. The Party embodies the True Interests of the People. We must selflessly serve the Great Leader, in order to serve The People.

If the Great Leader finds that he must shit on his erstwhile comrades, we must support the Great Leader and throw more shit at the renegades who have failed to support the Great Shitter.

Bourgeois ideologues say that the Great Leader has told "lies". History is Truth. The Will of the People is the Engine of History. The Great Leader embodies the Will of the People. The Great Leader speaks for History and Progress. He speaks Deep Truth.

Only Traitors and Petty Minds say that the Great Leader has "lied". History will crush them.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Oh, blinking well grow up.

If you want a considered perspective on why all this matters read Kevin Williamson's resignation letter.

Whether in court cases, in politics, in the workplace, or in any other facet of life (except Hibs versus Hearts football matches) the idea that the end justifies the means is fundamentally flawed. The means is always incorporated into the end result in one way or another.

If the means is based on deceit then only a deceitful person would take any satisfaction from the result. If the means is based on betrayal, or damage to others, or the sexual humiliation of women, then the end result becomes even more tarnished, and the financial gain becomes more akin to thirty pieces of silver than a righteous settlement.​

 

[JHE]

Oh, blinking well grow up.

I'm far too old to grow up - and frankly I think the apologists for Big Tommy Liar, like the Stalinists I tried to parody, have a view not very far from the one I suggest.

I like your "blinking", though. So coy! So lace curtains, pursed lips and Sunday School! Oh, fudge! Oh, butter!

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'm far too old to grow up - and frankly I think the apologists for Big Tommy Liar, like the Stalinists I tried to parody, have a view not very far from the one I suggest.

I like your "blinking", though. So coy! So lace curtains, pursed lips and Sunday School! Oh, fudge! Oh, butter!

I didn't blooming well mean you.

 

[Wilf]

I didn't blooming well mean you.

Well, did you flippin' well mean me. If so - crikey!

I liked that letter. It picked up on the core issue about the need for a prefigurative politics - and made useful points about the hierarchical way Sheridan's opponents reacted. In passing though, it was far, far more vicious about Sheridan than anything posted in this thread.

Mind, whilst i agreed with the specific things it said about Sheridan's dealings with women, it did at times edge over into toe curling pc-ness...

 

[Fullyplumped]

Nae offence, like.

 

[Wilf]

Nae offence, like.

Is that a banana in the pocket of your bathrobe, or are you just pleased to see me?

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

I was at his chat show, I posted about it at the time and although it wasn't very good it certainly was nothing like Jim Davidson (racist and sexist) ...again with the rubbish eh?

Classic Sheridan humour...

as for the suicide bombers' heavenly reward for their attacks on Glasgow airport, where would they find 21 virgins in Glasgow?"

Edinburgh is so posh its women don't get crabs they get... lobsters; they don't get the clap, they get applause.

To Stephen K Amos..."I see you've been using a sunbed too"

Splashing his life all over the tabloids? Missed that one, sorry.

Good grief - do you read Scottish Papers? There's quite a range to choose from..off the top of my head there's the obligatory wife and child photos as the scandal was about to break; the cosy bathrobe photos showing off his chest; the features on Gail's shopping activities (Marx Factor) and on their Xmas decorations (Sunday post last year)

Shopping people for what at the poll tax riots?

He didnt in the end, thankfully that time he listened to the advice of saner people

As I recall Sheridan was sentenced to 6 months in jail for stopping warrant sales during the poll tax years, bringing lot's of publicity to it which fucked off Thatcher and her mate...Rupert Murdoch.

Indeed he was, which was the reason that a great many people put their trust in him as a class fighter and a man of principle.

 

[DexterTCN]

And a great many right-wingers want to see that trashed.