Not the case, Liam makes that clear. He has a very good record in AFA.
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
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Not the case, Liam makes that clear. He has a very good record in AFA.
Well said Jackie.
Unfortunately I arrived here fresh from the fuckin idiocy on that anarchist board and just waded in. But then maybe that was necessary to establish who 'Deareg' is. Now we know (and anyone who can't work it out should perhaps ask whether they have any business 'piling in').
I have heard this fella called many things over the years - most of them complimentary.
I have never heard anyone - ever -call him a "wrong 'un".
Even when I have heard people criticise him - which was rare enough, and specific enough - the statement was inevitably either preceded or followed by the words 'fuckin' good lad though'... cue universal nodding of heads.
Now I disagree fundamentally about some stuff he seems to hold dear, but I would much rather converse with him civilly - as I have done since by phone - whenever that is an option.
I know that's easy for me to say because the exchange between him and me never had time to get really nasty (a bit pissy surely , but stilll handbag stuff). I am sure Joe may feel a little less inclined to be so magnanimous, but in all my days i don't think I have met anybody better able to fight his own corner - whether politically, personally, intellectually or in a battle of wits - than Joe, so he hardly needs me huffing on his behalf. His skill in this area is shown clearly by the way he encouraged 'Deareg' to show more of his hand til he had teased out enough to know who he was. On the down side, that made deareg's blood boil and he made some insinuations that in the cold light of day he would/should not have made.
It is unfortunate that somebody chose to register themselves as 'Sumud' and stir the pot in the middle of it all. That person (or more specifically their tactics and motives) is indeed malignant.
There is a huge difference between Deareg, who (as we now know) has been there and done it, who is on here arguing his corner (although from here on in I hope he too will keep it respectful) and 'Sumud'. This distinction is perhaps one we might all bear in mind. I know I am a contrary cunt myself (always have been... nd mouthy too), and quick to hit the insult accelerator - but I will be doing my best from this point on to think before I post.
And before any cunt jumps in to accuse me of trying to ride two horses at once, let me add this...
I have no doubt - never have had since 1982 - where my ultimate political and personal allegiances lie. They lie with Red Action and with the people in and around it. Not just as an 'organisation' (and God knows there was little enough 'organisation' of any kind in the early days) but as an idea, a way of thinking, a core belief - and a bunch of decent people with whom I have a shed-load of shared political and social experience.
And no, I don't think that is in any way a romantic/rose-tinted view and would be happy to discuss this idea with anybody who wants to.
That does not preclude me from maintaining fraternal political, and friendly personal, relations with former comrades - and even an occasional enemy.
That said, I have one final word for Deareg.... the word is 'DEARG' you dyslexic Manc twat!
Unfortunately I arrived here fresh from the fuckin idiocy on that anarchist board and just waded in. But then maybe that was necessary to establish who 'Deareg' is. Now we know (and anyone who can't work it out should perhaps ask whether they have any business 'piling in').
I have heard this fella called many things over the years - most of them complimentary.
I have never heard anyone - ever -call him a "wrong 'un".
Even when I have heard people criticise him - which was rare enough, and specific enough - the statement was inevitably either preceded or followed by the words 'fuckin' good lad though'... cue universal nodding of heads.
Now I disagree fundamentally about some stuff he seems to hold dear, but I would much rather converse with him civilly - as I have done since by phone - whenever that is an option.
I know that's easy for me to say because the exchange between him and me never had time to get really nasty (a bit pissy surely , but stilll handbag stuff). I am sure Joe may feel a little less inclined to be so magnanimous, but in all my days i don't think I have met anybody better able to fight his own corner - whether politically, personally, intellectually or in a battle of wits - than Joe, so he hardly needs me huffing on his behalf. His skill in this area is shown clearly by the way he encouraged 'Deareg' to show more of his hand til he had teased out enough to know who he was. On the down side, that made deareg's blood boil and he made some insinuations that in the cold light of day he would/should not have made.
It is unfortunate that somebody chose to register themselves as 'Sumud' and stir the pot in the middle of it all. That person (or more specifically their tactics and motives) is indeed malignant.
There is a huge difference between Deareg, who (as we now know) has been there and done it, who is on here arguing his corner (although from here on in I hope he too will keep it respectful) and 'Sumud'. This distinction is perhaps one we might all bear in mind. I know I am a contrary cunt myself (always have been... nd mouthy too), and quick to hit the insult accelerator - but I will be doing my best from this point on to think before I post.
And before any cunt jumps in to accuse me of trying to ride two horses at once, let me add this...
I have no doubt - never have had since 1982 - where my ultimate political and personal allegiances lie. They lie with Red Action and with the people in and around it. Not just as an 'organisation' (and God knows there was little enough 'organisation' of any kind in the early days) but as an idea, a way of thinking, a core belief - and a bunch of decent people with whom I have a shed-load of shared political and social experience.
And no, I don't think that is in any way a romantic/rose-tinted view and would be happy to discuss this idea with anybody who wants to.
That does not preclude me from maintaining fraternal political, and friendly personal, relations with former comrades - and even an occasional enemy.
That said, I have one final word for Deareg.... the word is 'DEARG' you dyslexic Manc twat!
'PS. Tilzley was kicked out of afa the second time for endangering Dave and another leading member telling them a fascist rally had been cancelled , protecting some source or other. Dave and another guy were bowling around the town looking for strays who didnt know it had been cancelled and walked into a big mob narrowly escaping big trouble. Unfortunately steve always put searchlight ahead of afa.'
So, looking for violence, then what happened when the 'stray' was a young lad who was maybe on his first ever fash outing, did you beat him to a pulp?
So, looking for violence, then what happened when the 'stray' was a young lad who was maybe on his first ever fash outing, did you beat him to a pulp?
Sometimes, yes.
This was done with a sincere political intention. many impressionable young people were brought out by the Fash with the promise of easy pickings - battering some lefty student types. We felt it important that they were swiftly disavowed of this notion.
More importantly, they went back to their local pubs with lumps missing off them which served both to burst the easy-pickings propaganda bubble... and to let others know that there might be a heavy price to pay should they choose to follow this path. Brutal but often effective.
having said that I remember many occasions where small numbers of fash were 'captured' by us and were not physically harmed at all. In fact i worked with one such 'victim' years later.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
A good reply Liam.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Still living in a fantasy that if you don't use it, violence will just go away.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Can you post any evidence, even a scintilla, that anyone is in love with violence as you suggest?!
It was rarely about the beating rather the humiliation, the beating rarely amounted to more than a few slaps especially young lads, we werent monsters! and we were usually in a hurry!
They had illusions of a master race vs. a few cowardly lefties, that was what it was about changing that scenario for them and as others have said for their freinds too. In that period for fascists the strategy was street violence, control of the streets, terrorising their opponents great craic for any young lads, ploughing through the "non-violent " lefties. Yes we looked for violence but we were justified and it worked.
No mate, in love with people, with life, my community and my Class (though I am quite fond of tree's too).
I lived, worked, socialised and debated with people who held reactionary and racist political views every day. Many working class people did, and do, hold such views. I have happily spent most of my life in debate, banter etc with them without resorting to violence. Ultimately people must be persuaded, not bullied, into challenging their beliefs.
But that does not mean I will let a bunch of nazi cunts walk all over me and intimidate people because of their race or their politics.
We did not choose the tactic of 'the battle for the streets' - the Fash did. Just as they did in Germany when they first developed the 'tavern Strategy'. If you would like to know more about this, read the original 'Beating the Fascists' book written about the 30's.
We had a duty to history and to ourselves as political activists, to rise to the challenge. We did.
When the fash retired from the battle - so did we.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you're a fucking psychopath so that comes as no surprise.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
It would depend on circumstances but the general rule of thumb would be to ensure his 'first fash outing' was also his last fash outing.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
What pissed me off personally, was that after Searchlight smeared Class War in 86, and at the enquiry then refused to offer a jot of credible evidence, your lot still worked with them. Given the huge credibility that RA rightly had, the lack of support to CW you offered confirmed in many peoples eyes that there was a semblance of truth to the Searchlight smears. You let us down.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Not true. At the 86 conference RA voted against the CW suspension. When the vote went against CW, the DAM and RA walked out. Not just out of the conference but out of AFA. AFA did nothing for 6 months. After CW was cleared, RA returned. It was not until RA took the reins in 89 in opposition to Searchlight that Dam returned. CW never did.
OUCH! As incisive as ever Mr Reilly
In light of some previous allegations some people may think AFA/RA was over run with grasses and SB touts. So I think we should set the record straight.
I don't necessarily want go over the allegations forensically for obvious reasons however on checking I can say this.One of the individuals referred to in a earlier post developed a propensity to grass himself up and then go futher in admitting other stuff he didn't actually do. In mitigation he had previously suffered a very serious head injury which may have had debilitating effect on his judgement. Concerned for his well being and that of everyone else he was contrary to what was alleged, stood down from frontline service. Tragically for all concerned he ignored the instruction and was eventually hunted from the organisation.
In regard to the other activist. After offering an attractive gun deal to a senior RA figure he was 'detained' within a half an hour had fessed up that he was working under instruction from SB. On being searched his handlers phone number was found in his pocket. At the time of the incident he was a supporting member having resigned his full membership of RA some time previously. Drink had made him vulnerable. But at best he was never more than a fringe player operationally. And the attempt at entrapment was particularly clumsy. So he was let off lightly. But he was careful never allowed in RA/AFA company again.
I don't necessarily want go over the allegations forensically for obvious reasons however on checking I can say this.One of the individuals referred to in a earlier post developed a propensity to grass himself up and then go futher in admitting other stuff he didn't actually do. In mitigation he had previously suffered a very serious head injury which may have had debilitating effect on his judgement. Concerned for his well being and that of everyone else he was contrary to what was alleged, stood down from frontline service. Tragically for all concerned he ignored the instruction and was eventually hunted from the organisation.
In regard to the other activist. After offering an attractive gun deal to a senior RA figure he was 'detained' within a half an hour had fessed up that he was working under instruction from SB. On being searched his handlers phone number was found in his pocket. At the time of the incident he was a supporting member having resigned his full membership of RA some time previously. Drink had made him vulnerable. But at best he was never more than a fringe player operationally. And the attempt at entrapment was particularly clumsy. So he was let off lightly. But he was careful never allowed in RA/AFA company again.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
october for the bookfair
miktheword
Well-Known Member
They've updated their website to say October / cable Street anni. Can concur with October - was told from another source, just as a 'waif and stray'
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The relationship between the words indymedia and truth is a complex one
love detective
there's no love too small
slow and steady wins the race
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Well, why don't you enlighten us sumud? After all, it does appear to be your sole purpose for being on here doesn't it? In the meantime it is noticeable that your Searchlight fellow-travellers on 'indynedia' (sic) are busily sinking to a new and desperate low. Is that out of frustration that Freedom Press haven't, despite the pressure, buckled as expected, or does it signal that we are just moving on the the next phase of struggle - character assassination pure and simple?
In short, having failed to prevent it being printed, the strategic objective will now be to pull out all the stops to prevent it being read?
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
I don't often agree with you Joe, but on this I can see this being attempted. It won't work though.
I don't think we are referring to a little 'bitching and back-biting' here. It is more a concerted (and organised) campaign of personal vilification and character assassination. It is mostly stuff that would not be allowed on this Forum, where at least the moderators have at least some info as to who posters actually are.
Ironically it would appear to be being carried out by, and on behalf of, a slightly shady (but ultimately inadequate) character who vaccilates violently and repeatedly, between slagging off his nemesis from behind various nommes-de-plume on Internet boards - and licking his arse and trying to buy him pints in Manchester's finest hostelries (presumably in exchange for re-entry to the fold). I'd say he has two hopes of getting it - going to the hen-house looking for wool, methinks.
If I am mistaken, I would politely suggest that now would be a good time for this person (who has a bit of a history for 'who... me, guv' post-event) to step forward and publicly distance himself from these odious tactics. It's never too late to grow a pair of balls and stand up to your puppetmasters.
If you'se are at this shit during the warm-up, what new and inventively low levels will you stoop to when the game actually kicks off Sumud? And remember he who stoops to conquer leaves himself open to an almighty boot in the swede (speaking purely metaphorically of course).
Ironically it would appear to be being carried out by, and on behalf of, a slightly shady (but ultimately inadequate) character who vaccilates violently and repeatedly, between slagging off his nemesis from behind various nommes-de-plume on Internet boards - and licking his arse and trying to buy him pints in Manchester's finest hostelries (presumably in exchange for re-entry to the fold). I'd say he has two hopes of getting it - going to the hen-house looking for wool, methinks.
If I am mistaken, I would politely suggest that now would be a good time for this person (who has a bit of a history for 'who... me, guv' post-event) to step forward and publicly distance himself from these odious tactics. It's never too late to grow a pair of balls and stand up to your puppetmasters.
If you'se are at this shit during the warm-up, what new and inventively low levels will you stoop to when the game actually kicks off Sumud? And remember he who stoops to conquer leaves himself open to an almighty boot in the swede (speaking purely metaphorically of course).
bignose1
Searchlight Spoiler
Dishonourable discharge..........get to fuck
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Would you care to expand on that point?
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