Deareg
Well-Known Member
You really are one clueless cunt, aren't you?
i knew dave and i know tilzley, so i think that makes you the clueless cunt
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
- Thread starter cogg
- Start date
i knew dave and i know tilzley, so i think that makes you the clueless cunt
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
To repeat without some additional details...
Deareg
Well-Known Member
you are claiming you can't remember a member being arrested by special banch and spilling his guts to them and then coming forward weeks later to confess, another member being arrested for criminal activity and twice at least, grassing on his partners in crime? but you feel qualified to write a book covering something like a 10 year period,
Deareg
Well-Known Member
joe, i am starting to wonder about you, you were content enough to work for over 5 years with gerry gable, someone that you yourself branded a special branch informant, therefore putting the liberty and security of both Red Action and AFA members at risk, you claim that you can not remember a member coming forward weeks if not months after he was arrested and interogated by special branch and admitting that he co-operated fully with them during his time under arrest, i will remind you that he was never expelled, neither was the member who grassed on his partners in crime, twice for definite, possibly three times, nor other members who indulged in various acts of violence which included glassing a man in a pub on tottenham court rd for no more than a minor arguement and you were there when it happened, yet you helped drive a man like dave hann out of both Red Action and AFA and you continue to this day a year after he has died, to slander the name of a man who was one of the most dedicated, hardworking and courageous anti-fascist activists that i had the honour of knowing, whose fucking agenda are you working to joe?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
thankfully not the same as yours
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
you had to edit 'hic'?
Do you also know Dave's co-accused Mark, and ever discussed their joint trial with him. He would give you a very different take on things.
I think Mark was also a member of AFA in Manchester, but no-one ever talks about him. He was certainly present on many of the events of the time.
I spoke to Steve and Dave at length about the trial, both before and after. Never got to speak to Mark about it. Seems he just disappeared.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
you mean a refusal to reveal any/all of my sources on anything to anonymous scum?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Your a winnip on the pubes of progressive politics.
Acquittal equals innocence?
I'm sure Dave's troubles will be covered comprehensively in the book.
On the subject of acquittal being the same as innocence... come, come Deareg. Are you really so naieve?
The Law is a game. We learned the rules of engagement through bitter experience and became quite good at it. Many many RA and AFA people were acquitted despite being guilty as fuck - and quite rightly so given that nearly every arrest was as a result of political direct action.
Indeed one RA member (who beat three serious charges in a row with COMPLETELY fabricated defences) was practically a 'professional' witness. He was of the 'method' acting school and anybody who knew him socially or politically who observed him in a Dock or a witness box would be hard pressed to recognise him. He used to coach others too and was damn good at it.
I often appeared as a witness myself in Defence case's that were pure, unadulterated constructions. The Plod were lying (or at least 'gilding the lily'), the Prosecutor was often lying, Prosecution witnesses (mostly Fash) were lying and so were we.
Often our lies were more plausible. Firstly because we had a vested interest in telling good ones. Secondly, because we understood the mechanics of the 'game'. and thirdly because the Prosecution had a heavier burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) whereas all we were trying to do was introduce a hint of doubt - a POSSIBILITY that the Plod might have made a 'mistake'.
It is my understanding that Dave benifitted from this skill-set on this occasion. His subsequent acquittal no more makes him innocent than a 'guilty' made the Guildford Four guilty.
No doubt you will come back with some old diversionary 'outraged' bollocks, but the truth will out in the book hopefully.
I'm sure Dave's troubles will be covered comprehensively in the book.
On the subject of acquittal being the same as innocence... come, come Deareg. Are you really so naieve?
The Law is a game. We learned the rules of engagement through bitter experience and became quite good at it. Many many RA and AFA people were acquitted despite being guilty as fuck - and quite rightly so given that nearly every arrest was as a result of political direct action.
Indeed one RA member (who beat three serious charges in a row with COMPLETELY fabricated defences) was practically a 'professional' witness. He was of the 'method' acting school and anybody who knew him socially or politically who observed him in a Dock or a witness box would be hard pressed to recognise him. He used to coach others too and was damn good at it.
I often appeared as a witness myself in Defence case's that were pure, unadulterated constructions. The Plod were lying (or at least 'gilding the lily'), the Prosecutor was often lying, Prosecution witnesses (mostly Fash) were lying and so were we.
Often our lies were more plausible. Firstly because we had a vested interest in telling good ones. Secondly, because we understood the mechanics of the 'game'. and thirdly because the Prosecution had a heavier burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) whereas all we were trying to do was introduce a hint of doubt - a POSSIBILITY that the Plod might have made a 'mistake'.
It is my understanding that Dave benifitted from this skill-set on this occasion. His subsequent acquittal no more makes him innocent than a 'guilty' made the Guildford Four guilty.
No doubt you will come back with some old diversionary 'outraged' bollocks, but the truth will out in the book hopefully.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
and you, quite evidently, are a steaming turd--troll off.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
I fear Deareg may have fled field, which is a shame as I would like him to explain how it was he knew Hann had been arrested on charges of robbery with violence (when, bar Tilzey, no one else did) but did not satisfy his curiousity as to his hero's guilt or innocence, or so he maintains, until after the trial and after his acquittal!
Which, if he's straight, is rather odd.
Two questions about the book. Does the book discuss the activities of a notorious manchester criminal and good friend of AFA/RA who turned out to be a paid informer for the state and does the book mention the serious assault on a homeless wino by three senior AFA/RA members in Londaon after a nights drinking?
Deareg
Well-Known Member
quite simple brainiac, i was told he had been charged, and then when i saw him again a few years later i asked him, is that too straight forward for you?
are you gonna start answering questions now, or are they beneath you?
past caring
The Cathars were right
D minus - must try harder.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
I wouldn't even give him an E for that
past caring
The Cathars were right
Don't think he'd want an E - glue possibly, but not an E.
I would hope that if notorious of manchester did sterling work for AFA it will be properly accredited and not misappropriated as the work of others, as has happened in other books that have attempted to cover these events.
No doubt any other rumours regarding his paid work for the state will be substantiated by your good self.
Indeed. Put up or fuck up!
One thing nobody would ever have accused 'notorious' of is being backwards at coming forwards... why are you so shy Mr no-name-no-evidence?
He is no longer around to defend himself, but still you hide behind anonymous name-calling. I respect your right to anonymity, but surely a little substantiation is required when throwing such comments about? So, like I said... put up or fuck-up!
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
It's the bit in bold which is the most telling part of your argument. It's rumoured that you are a prick - no actually that is a fact!
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Are you suggesting that the 'notorious manchester criminal' passed on information to the Police regarding AFA or Red Action?
The lack of Police success in disrupting AFAs activities would suggest otherwise
Hmm, interesting when someone with no posting history or identifiable features or name comes on and makes this sort of accusation with no evidence...
Still I'm sure all you muppets will help boost sales of the book further which as a supporter of Freedom, and a sympathiser of AFA and RA makes me happy.
Problem?
Deareg... split personality my son?
I have removed this post.
it was aimed at 'drawing out' Deareg as I was curious to know his identity.
I now know exactly who he is and although I disagree fundamentally with some of what he says, he is indeed an old friend and comrade. The tone of my post was not helpful, so I've removed it.
I have removed this post.
it was aimed at 'drawing out' Deareg as I was curious to know his identity.
I now know exactly who he is and although I disagree fundamentally with some of what he says, he is indeed an old friend and comrade. The tone of my post was not helpful, so I've removed it.
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