Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Joe Reilly]

... at least one developed a bit of a habit of grassing on his partners who had managed to avoid arrest, he was never expelled from either red action or afa...

As you should know making any form of statement, even if only implicating yourself would not have been condoned. A defintive yellow card offence. Making a statement implicating someone else, and your off. A straight red. Two yellows would generally also lead to a red. It follows therefore that no one would have been allowed the opportunity of developing as you allege 'a habit'.

But assuming you believe this to be true let me take a wild stab in the dark.

The allegedly guilty party was not someone you worked with in Manchester or the NN?

Nor was he someone you knew personally?

My guess is the alleged 'serial grass' was more or less assembled possibly from bit parts of real cases, by either Dave (or Tilzey) purely to demonstrate the unfairness of his 'vilification'?

From that you drew the conclusion that as others trangressed without sanction so his targetting had to be 'personal' as you already stated?

It's not a unreasonable conclusion given the 'evidence' presented to you but it is also an utterly false.

If you only think about for a minute the proposition is absurd. AFA did not, and simply could not, operate with someone like that in the ranks. It simply would not be tolerated. End of.

 

[Deareg]

i can not believe how wide of the mark you are, you are not even shooting in the right direction, or that you claim you don't know who i am talking about, but i will give you the benefit of the doubt, i am speaking about events that happened in london when i was still a member of both organisations, not from hearsay, what about the fact that a number of red action members were arrested and two imprisoned for criminal acts but were never expelled from red action or afa? do you claim that you don't know who i am speaking of as well?

i dont even know anymore why i bothered getting involved in this shit, i stated to begin with i found the attitude towards this current book to be the same as red actions towards no retreat, including not even waiting until it was published to at least have some idea what was you were criticising, on that i am correct

 

[Joe Reilly]

i can not believe how wide of the mark you are, you are not even shooting in the right direction, or that you claim you don't know who i am talking about, but i will give you the benefit of the doubt, i am speaking about events that happened in london when i was still a member of both organisations, not from hearsay, what about the fact that a number of red action members were arrested and two imprisoned for criminal acts but were never expelled from red action or afa? do you claim that you don't know who i am speaking of as well?

i dont even know anymore why i bothered getting involved in this shit, i stated to begin with i found the attitude towards this current book to be the same as red actions towards no retreat, including not even waiting until it was published to at least have some idea what was you were criticising, on that i am correct

Large parts of No Retreat were fictional as they had to be. Both characters were given dishonourable discharges. Naturally they were suspicions. And they proved to be well-grounded.

Simply being jailed for 'criminal acts' would not necessarily mean automatic expulsion. It would depend on circumstances. From the early days a fair number of people went to jail. But the idea of a serial tout being kept on the books, as you allege, is a nonsense. I mean if everybody knew why would anyone tolerate it?

 

[Deareg]

Large parts of No Retreat were fictional as they had to be. Both characters were given dishonourable discharges. Naturally they were suspicions. And they proved to be well-grounded.

Simply being jailed for 'criminal acts' would not necessarily mean automatic expulsion. It would depend on circumstances. From the early days a fair number of people went to jail. But the idea of a serial tout being kept on the books, as you allege, is a nonsense. I mean if everybody knew why would anyone tolerate it?

this is getting boring joe, not only was he not expelled but another red action member who was arrested and spilled his guts to special branch then only came forward weeks if not months later was not fucking expelled, can you remember him? tell me then, what was so bad about dave that he had to be expelled despite being found not guilty?

 

[Deareg]

I'll introduce you to a mate of mines who's nickname-well know by people he'd rather not know-was bandied about in the book doing things you might not want repeated..... He'd be happy to repeat a simple point there was NO need for the names.

how does your mate feel about red action and afa continuing to work with gerry gable 10 years after it was revealed that he was passing info to special branch?

 

[Joe Reilly]

how does your mate feel about red action and afa continuing to work with gerry gable 10 years after it was revealed that he was passing info to special branch?

At least try and be consistent. You are on here defending individuals who effectively worked for Searchlight!

 

[Deareg]

At least try and be consistent. You are on here defending individuals who effectively worked for Searchlight!

am i? i thought i was asking for proof of tilzleys wrong doing? wasn't it you who said that that he was expelled sometime in the eighties for working with searchlight yet you continued to work with gable until searchlight was proscribed in 97, maybe it is you who should be consistent, the only person i am defending is dave hann because he cant do it himself,

i asked you about the red action member who was arrested by special branch do you remember him?

 

[Fedayn]

how does your mate feel about red action and afa continuing to work with gerry gable 10 years after it was revealed that he was passing info to special branch?

Nice bit of avoidance, so care to answer the question, or is it the case that you can't answer it?!

 

[Deareg]

Nice bit of avoidance, so care to answer the question, or is it the case that you can't answer it?!

avoidance? fed how exactly am i meant to answer? you said your mate was annoyed at being named in the book, i am hardly gonna say he is wrong or shouldn't have been , so basiclly i can't answer or at least i dont think i can, let me know how you think i should have answered

 

[Joe Reilly]

am i? i thought i was asking for proof of tilzleys wrong doing? wasn't it you who said that that he was expelled sometime in the eighties for working with searchlight yet you continued to work with gable until searchlight was proscribed in 97, maybe it is you who should be consistent, the only person i am defending is dave hann because he cant do it himself,

i asked you about the red action member who was arrested by special branch do you remember him?

Actually relations between RA and Searchlight broke down in 1989. There was of course occasional contact afterwards. Contact was completely broken off in 1993. The proscribing of Searchlight in the mid 1990's was to stifle an entryist operation within AFA.

 

[Deareg]

Actually relations between RA and Searchlight broke down in 1989. There was of course occasional contact afterwards. Contact was completely broken off in 1993. The proscribing of Searchlight in the mid 1990's was to stifle an entryist operation within AFA.

not that i give a fuck, but it was alright for you to work with gable but not tilzley? for my money you should be fucking ashamed at even giving gable the time of day once you had decided he was an informer,

are you gonna answer about the red action member and the branch?

 

[Fedayn]

avoidance? fed how exactly am i meant to answer? you said your mate was annoyed at being named in the book, i am hardly gonna say he is wrong or shouldn't have been , so basiclly i can't answer or at least i dont think i can, let me know how you think i should have answered

You made out it didn't matter, they were only nicknames etc. The point being that his nickname was known by people he'd rather not know it. They knew who he was/is. No Retreat effectively 'outed' him to some people.

 

[past caring]

Aye, but no harm done.

 

[Joe Reilly]

not that i give a fuck, but it was alright for you to work with gable but not tilzley? for my money you should be fucking ashamed at even giving gable the time of day once you had decided he was an informer,

are you gonna answer about the red action member and the branch?

Admittedly there was at times an exceptionally high intererest in both RA and AFA by the 'spook community', all sort of people were stopped at airports, visited at their place of work (ocassionally causing them to lose their jobs) phone tapping, and visual surveillance of people they considered of interest was fairly routine.

Pressures were brought to bear and so forth. Some dealt with it better than others. But without additional details...I couldn't possibly comment further.

 

[Deareg]

You made out it didn't matter, they were only nicknames etc. The point being that his nickname was known by people he'd rather not know it. They knew who he was/is. No Retreat effectively 'outed' him to some people.

right i oversteped the mark as far as your mate was concerned by saying what i did, will you pass on my sincere apologies?

 

[Deareg]

Admittedly there was at times an exceptionally high intererest in both RA and AFA by the 'spook community', all sort of people were stopped at airports, visited at their place of work (ocassionally causing them to lose their jobs) phone tapping, and visual surveillance of people they considered of interest was fairly routine.

Pressures were brought to bear and so forth. Some dealt with it better than others. But without additional details...I couldn't possibly comment further.

are you saying that you do not know the person and instance i am asking about?

 

[Deareg]

Aye, but no harm done.

did joe tell you to say that?

 

[past caring]

Why not ask him?

 

[Deareg]

Why not ask him?

are you not allowed to answer for yourself?

 

[Fedayn]

right i oversteped the mark as far as your mate was concerned by saying what i did, will you pass on my sincere apologies?

You seem determined to miss the point about naming people in that book whether by nickname or name. Oh well....

 

[Deareg]

You seem determined to miss the point about naming people in that book whether by nickname or name. Oh well....

no your mate was perfectly entitled to be annoyed if he was outed, i should not have used the phrase that i did

 

[past caring]

are you not allowed to answer for yourself?

Do you not "do" sarcasm?

 

[Deareg]

Do you not "do" sarcasm?

ouch

anyway, what makes you think i was being sarcastic?

 

[past caring]

First rule of edit - only do it when it improves the original post.

 

[Deareg]

First rule of edit - only do it when it improves the original post.

i was actually being serious

 

[past caring]

I didn't doubt it. Hence the response.

 

[Deareg]

I didn't doubt it. Hence the response.

i was being serious, you haven't got a clue about anything that happened with dave, so someone is telling you what to say, and i reckon its joe, you brown tongued wanker

 

[past caring]

You really are one clueless cunt, aren't you?

 

[Joe Reilly]

i was being serious, you haven't got a clue about anything that happened with dave,

Nor, as you will in time, find out, do you.

 

[Deareg]

Nor, as you will in time, find out, do you.

still no comment on the red action member and the branch?