Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[LiamO]

Cliché Ray has died

Ray, who was an active and game AFA member, posted on here as tbaldwin. His socialism was at odds with that of many on U75 but that never stopped him arguing his corner.

Some people found him to be contrary (I didn't, but then I AM) to which I would say you'd probably be a bit contrary too if you had terminal cancer (which he fought for many years).

I know he fell out politically (and sometimes personally) with a number of former comrades. Indeed his first post on this thread is a classic case of taking a principled position but based on half the story. I had the luxury of not being around for those falling-outs so, whilst I disagreed with some of his posts on this thread, I found him engaging and a real civil kind of fella.

There is an RIP thread here.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/345096-RIP-Ray-aka-Tommy-Baldwin-(-quot-tbaldwin-quot-)

 

[ayatollah]

I don't know what success the rest of you have had in getting hold of a copy of BTF - BUT...

I eventually gave up on my Amazon order - always "Not in Stock" - and cancelled...

Then tried Freedom Books directly for a copy ... BUT their online purchasing - supposedly via Google for credit card payments - states that Freedom Books is no longer a participating trader !

It aint going to get in the Best Seller Charts at this rate, chaps !

 

[Sue]

Try this:

http://beatingthefascists.org/

 

[love detective]

ayatollah, if you order using the link above that Sue posted, the notification will come through to me and I'll post it out first class as soon as I receive it

 

[ayatollah]

Thank you very much both Sue and Love Detective - I have now successfully purchased BTF - AT last ! I await delivery with anticipation - stand by for lots of book comments and nitpicking ! (as if I would)

 

[sim667]

I'd quite like to read this....

Im assuming it probably wont be available at my local library?

 

[love detective]

Thank you very much both Sue and Love Detective - I have now successfully purchased BTF - AT last ! I await delivery with anticipation - stand by for lots of book comments and nitpicking ! (as if I would)

order received, will get it posted out later on today when I get home

 

[Blagsta]

I'd quite like to read this....

Im assuming it probably wont be available at my local library?

Why don't you reserve a copy?

 

[love detective]

I'd quite like to read this....

Im assuming it probably wont be available at my local library?

Not at the moment no, hoping to get some copies into the library system at some point though (although your local library will probably be closed down by the time that happens!)

 

[manny-p]

Why don't you reserve a copy?

What they will buy one in for you? Sweet if true.

 

[Demu]

Perhaps someone from FP can explain what the problem is?

Half of the Middle East has changed hands in less time it has taken this book publisher to get the book from the printers to the distributers and retailers.

On a separate note, Ayatollah, you have a PM regarding an old friend who has not been too well of late.

I don't know what success the rest of you have had in getting hold of a copy of BTF - BUT...

I eventually gave up on my Amazon order - always "Not in Stock" - and cancelled...

Then tried Freedom Books directly for a copy ... BUT their online purchasing - supposedly via Google for credit card payments - states that Freedom Books is no longer a participating trader !

It aint going to get in the Best Seller Charts at this rate, chaps !

 

[BlackArab]

Perhaps someone from FP can explain what the problem is?

Half of the Middle East has changed hands in less time it has taken this book publisher to get the book from the printers to the distributers and retailers.

On a separate note, Ayatollah, you have a PM regarding an old friend who has not been too well of late.

In their defence, I've bought two copies so far and have had no problems, having followed the links posted on this thread. Sue put up the link, Ayatollah ordered and LD confirmed in less than 24 hours. I only wish some online retailers could be that efficient. If the BTF crew start selling DVD boxsets I'm cancelling my Amazon account

 

[ayatollah]

And I have indeed got the book today and am pouring over it now (with my lawyer on tap ! --- just joking guys) It's a great rollicking read so far I must say. (perhaps not as punchy as No Retreat though - MUCH longer though - and of course unlike NR it may all be TRUE !).

You just gotta get this book into Amazon's stock guys - it deserves a much wider readership than the current limited availability routes are going to produce. It can certainly be got into public libraries by us all simply going in and ordering it at our local library.

 

[Blagsta]

What they will buy one in for you? Sweet if true.

Libraries used to, but in these times of budget cuts, I dunno

 

[love detective]

In their defence, I've bought two copies so far and have had no problems, having followed the links posted on this thread. Sue put up the link, Ayatollah ordered and LD confirmed in less than 24 hours. I only wish some online retailers could be that efficient. If the BTF crew start selling DVD boxsets I'm cancelling my Amazon account

Just to clarify though, purchases through the www.beatingthefascists.org site (which both you and ayatollah bought through) are not dealt with or handled by the publishers Freedom Press. They are dealt with by the IWCA.

 

[manny-p]

Libraries used to, but in these times of budget cuts, I dunno

Im gonna try. They will probably say no.

 

[ayatollah]

Believe me, despite budget cuts - it will still be possible to order this as a not currently in stock new book purchase at your local library - or in the case of my particular hi tec local library system - online - so I'm going to put in just such a request too - just to get one into our local system. We should ALL do the same.

 

[manny-p]

Believe me, despite budget cuts - it will still be possible to order this as a not currently in stock new book purchase at your local library - or in the case of my particular hi tec local library system - online - so I'm going to put in just such a request too - just to get one into our local system. We should ALL do the same.

Okay will let you know what happens.

 

[ayatollah]

Just stormed through my copy of BTF. What an excellent book this is ! It was obviously fascinating for an old activist , but I also liked the fact that in places it is very funny;
"AFA abided by the Roosevelt Doctrine , ie ... Speak softly ...and carry a big stick" excellent. The description of the strange fascist prosecution witnesses and their statements at the 1992 Gable/O'Shea trial is so funny I'll be giggling for weeks !

But also there is a profound social/political analysis in the book too - with a, I think accurate, and very worrying strategic view of the danger of a fast expanding radical right in the context of a collapsed Left. An essential book for all on the Left.

As a contributory anecdote about Left posturing : In around 1986/7 I was rushing around Merseyside for AFA whipping up counter demo numbers for an announced fascist demo in Liverpool. In Birkenhead we had a good big meeting - where I emphasised that, unlike the Militant protest in the Liverpool City Centre, AFA wasn't just going to wave placards but wanted numbers of people willing to confront em hard - and so warned that the AFA bit of the days action might be rough . A question from the floor... "What steps have you taken to ensure wheelchair users can fully participate in the AFA confrontation with the fascists ?" I have to admit to being nonplussed !

 

[audiotech]

A question from the floor... "What steps have you taken to ensure wheelchair users can fully participate in the AFA confrontation with the fascists ? I have to admit to being nonplussed !

The film 'Ben Hur' and the chariot race springs to mind.

 

[cogg]

Just stormed through my copy of BTF. What an excellent book this is ! It was obviously fascinating for an old activist , but I also liked the fact that in places it is very funny;
"AFA abided by the Roosevelt Doctrine , ie ... Speak softly ...and carry a big stick" excellent. The description of the strange fascist prosecution witnesses and their statements at the 1992 Gable/O'Shea trial is so funny I'll be giggling for weeks !

But also there is a profound social/political analysis in the book too - with a, I think accurate, and very worrying strategic view of the danger of a fast expanding radical right in the context of a collapsed Left. An essential book for all on the Left.

As a contributory anecdote about Left posturing : In around 1986/7 I was rushing around Merseyside for AFA whipping up counter demo numbers for an announced fascist demo in Liverpool. In Birkenhead we had a good big meeting - where I emphasised that, unlike the Militant protest in the Liverpool City Centre, AFA wasn't just going to wave placards but wanted numbers of people willing to confront em hard - and so warned that the AFA bit of the days action might be rough . A question from the floor... "What steps have you taken to ensure wheelchair users can fully participate in the AFA confrontation with the fascists ? I have to admit to being nonplussed !

Glad you like the book.
In the novel, 'Infinite Jest', by David Foster Wallace, there's a group of weelchair bound Canadian terrorists...

 

[manny-p]

AFA wasn't just going to wave placards but wanted numbers of people willing to confront em hard - and so warned that the AFA bit of the days action might be rough . A question from the floor... "What steps have you taken to ensure wheelchair users can fully participate in the AFA confrontation with the fascists ? I have to admit to being nonplussed !

If they take you down, most wheelchaired people have awesome upper body strength.

 

[Joe Reilly]

But also there is a profound social/political analysis in the book too - with a, I think accurate, and very worrying strategic view of the danger of a fast expanding radical right in the context of a collapsed Left.



A recent poll in France saw the NF top the poll for the first time ever. Of course that is France where the far-right have been on the national stage for decades. From that perspective the BNP are still in the their formative years. Yet, this fact is hardly grounds for the type of complacency, which has long been the default position of the liberal left. A recent Populus poll asked how many people agreed with the statement that' immigration had improved their area'. The total that signed up to this notion was a resounding 3 per cent. The total who agreed to any extent was just 12 per cent. In other words anti-immigrant sentiment in good old multicultural Britian, even without it taking overt political form, appears to be significantly worse than all other comparable countries in Europe. As BTF concludes, depressing as things are, 'we may already be in a hell of lot more trouble than we think we are'.

 

[bignose1]

Just stormed through my copy of BTF. What an excellent book this is ! It was obviously fascinating for an old activist , but I also liked the fact that in places it is very funny;
"AFA abided by the Roosevelt Doctrine , ie ... Speak softly ...and carry a big stick" excellent. The description of the strange fascist prosecution witnesses and their statements at the 1992 Gable/O'Shea trial is so funny I'll be giggling for weeks !

But also there is a profound social/political analysis in the book too - with a, I think accurate, and very worrying strategic view of the danger of a fast expanding radical right in the context of a collapsed Left. An essential book for all on the Left.

As a contributory anecdote about Left posturing : In around 1986/7 I was rushing around Merseyside for AFA whipping up counter demo numbers for an announced fascist demo in Liverpool. In Birkenhead we had a good big meeting - where I emphasised that, unlike the Militant protest in the Liverpool City Centre, AFA wasn't just going to wave placards but wanted numbers of people willing to confront em hard - and so warned that the AFA bit of the days action might be rough . A question from the floor... "What steps have you taken to ensure wheelchair users can fully participate in the AFA confrontation with the fascists ?" I have to admit to being nonplussed !

Thats about as made up as me on the coach JP...

 

[ayatollah]

Nope ... 100% true that anecdote is . And I now know that it was actually someone else on that Aytoun St coach, and who it was - as I have just spent a very happy day in Manchester chinwagging with DC and RM . Your name came up !

Whilst I'm on this thread...a funny extract from BTF: from the 1992 trial of Gable and O'shea:

"The principal witness for the prosecution was (fascist) Keith Thompson...Even the relatively simple matter of swearing an oath landed him in trouble. He swore on the Bible but was forced to admit that he had once been an Odinist. He insisted this was no longer the case..The defence responded with the enquiry "Tell us, Mr Thompson, when did Valhalla cease to play an important part in your life ?" The court erupted. " (P.286).
.

 

[sim667]

What they will buy one in for you? Sweet if true.

Will they?

 

[manny-p]

Will they?

Will try tomorrow. Will report back.

 

[bignose1]

Nope ... 100% true that anecdote is . And I now know that it was actually someone else on that Aytoun St coach, and who it was - as I have just spent a very happy day in Manchester chinwagging with DC and RM . Your name came up !

Whilst I'm on this thread...a funny extract from BTF: from the 1992 trial of Gable and O'shea:

"The principal witness for the prosecution was (fascist) Keith Thompson...Even the relatively simple matter of swearing an oath landed him in trouble. He swore on the Bible but was forced to admit that he had once been an Odinist. He insisted this was no longer the case..The defence responded with the enquiry "Tell us, Mr Thompson, when did Valhalla cease to play an important part in your life ?" The court erupted. " (P.286).
.

Cold case get together......kma

 

[LiamO]

Cold case get together......kma

tut tut bignose. You're only huffing cos you weren't invited.

Whilst DC remains your bete noir, RM is a very chilled (philosophical even) individual these days and when I last met him preferred to speak highly of you in the 'good ol' days' rather than focus on negative things after the parting of the ways.

But anyone but a fool would still would think twice before dismissing HIM with a 'kma'.

 

[ayatollah]

What a sad old gent I am nowadays , just not up with the street argot........ I've genuinely only just worked out what "kma" means....and after I'd told everyone on this thread that you weren't a complete twwwwaaaaaattttt Steve.... dearie, dearie, dearie me....hold me back... hold me back........fetch me my weighted, studded, club matron !



As LiamO says RM is indeed an extraordinarly "Centred" man nowadays - I've never laughed so much as I did on Tuesday meeting with him and DC, and sharing old timer yarns (only thing missing was Bruce Springsteins "Glory Days" playing in the background). RM could have an entire book written just on his anecdotes alone - a great guy, a true original.