Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
- Thread starter cogg
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love detective
there's no love too small
It's not available on Amazon yet (batch of copies have been sitting at customs in Southampton docks since christmas eve!) but you can get it from the IWCA here:-
http://beatingthefascists.org/
If you order now it'll be posted tomorrow
I think you'll have to sort out the Amazon supply issue pronto if you want this book to reach a really large audience. Snake eyed capitalists that they are, nevertheless Amazon totally dominate the book supply market. I got my copy of "No Surrender" easily enough from Amazon (and I've already paid my money to order it from them now). So looks like I might have a bit of a wait.
whats No Surrender?
Oops , yes "No Retreat" it is: a slightly careless mistake... hopefully not Freudian though. Fortunately Amazon did actually send me the Tilzey and Hann Book at the time, so I must have got the title right then..... rather than the collected wit and wisdom of Ian Paisley ! 
The floor is yours Ayatollah. What would you like to kick off with?
I would be more than happy to engage in any discussion you would care to start. I share your views on Steve Tilzeys early career and have chatted to him recently. I suppose we agreed to differ on one or two things, but could also remember some times of great comraderie.
I would be more than happy to engage in any discussion you would care to start. I share your views on Steve Tilzeys early career and have chatted to him recently. I suppose we agreed to differ on one or two things, but could also remember some times of great comraderie.
Thanks. Glad you still meet "Fishface", and hopefully Dennis et al on occasions - Please give them all my best regards. I'm obviously keen to read "Beating the Fascists" so I can comment from knowledge of the actual book- though my mistake in handing my cash to Amazon for a copy seems likely to delay that somewhat ! Having been taken aback by the vituperative hatred of Searchlight exhibitted in many reviews and posts I was going to again be all liberal and say how despite the formal break in relations in Manchester with Searchlight in the early 80's - placing us well ahead of the curve on the Left by decades - that I personally knew that Searchlight had done lots of good work against the fascists over the years - indeed I had done a few "projects" with them myself , and since no-one had been lifted, it was hard to believe that all the hatred of them was justified -- HOWEVER.... I've just read the 1983 Anarchy mag article on www.katesharpleylibrary.net and I'm still in shock ! Bloody Hell. Pat on our collective backs for cutting off relations with them when we did ! I just thought they were a bunch of manipulative, informational anally retentive, plotters - but this stuff - RA cutting off relations in ,was it as late as 1998 ?)was obviously quite late in the day... It must give you lads the shivers too.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is all in public right -you know that?
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Just for the record 'relations' between RA/AFA and Searchlight ended in early 1993. For some years previous to the cessation, there was controlled contact via hand picked individuals who were fully aware of GG's, let's call it 'mixed loyalties' and were in position precisely to filter out the good info (and contrary to rumour there was on occassion the odd nugget) from the bad. Given the identity of at least one of the AFA reps any 'shivering' was most likely to be on Searchlight's side.
It was only when Searchlight sought to influence AFA from without, by circumventing the previous arrangement, and working through placements within AFA, that contact with them was formally proscribed in about '95. Leeds branch were cited in Dec 1996, and suspended along with their Huddersfield satellite in July 1997.
I'm not sure where the 1998 date comes from (it popped up in a review of BTF recently as well) but is as is plain to see rather wide of the mark.
solidyeoman
Active Member
'On another point raised - the suspension of Class War from AFA. I was the person (with the completely useless GR)tasked to carry out the investigation by the AFA Steering Group. I was shocked at the glee with which so many on the Left sniped and badmouthed Class War , but then NOONE was prepared to make any detail statements to the enquiry to back up the gossip- Witchhunting seemed to be VERY popular on the Left. No sooner than I had reported there was no case to answer on Class War, then Bugger me other Lefties tried to expel Red Action , and demanded another GRAND ENQUIRY - into RA this time - such FUN!! I was able to quash the demand for another Witchhunt "Enquiry" at the next Steering Group Meeting'
Interesting post re CW suspension Ayatollah and that you conducted the inquiry. I did the written CW reply to the inquiry rebutting the searchlight allegations.The problem was that as soon as one lot of allegations were dealt with another lot hove into view and Searchlight would forget all about the earlier lot.Politically the allegations worked to an extent in that CW was forced onto the defensive for a year rather than going forward at The time when it was at it's height. I think a lot on the Left were pleased to see CW cop it for all the slagging off we'd given them!
Interesting post re CW suspension Ayatollah and that you conducted the inquiry. I did the written CW reply to the inquiry rebutting the searchlight allegations.The problem was that as soon as one lot of allegations were dealt with another lot hove into view and Searchlight would forget all about the earlier lot.Politically the allegations worked to an extent in that CW was forced onto the defensive for a year rather than going forward at The time when it was at it's height. I think a lot on the Left were pleased to see CW cop it for all the slagging off we'd given them!
Just to clarify... I spoke to Steve twice by telephone, I haven't met him in many years. Whilst our conversation was cordial and fraternal (and I genuinely like Steve as a fella) he was never in any doubt as to where my loyalties lie, nor should anybody else be.
I also meet and phone another old mate of yours, from Salford, fairly regularly and will let him know he can contact you through this forum.
As regards Searchlight, I think Joe's post puts the record straight. Yes they were handy 'allies' on occasion in terms of 'United Front' work, but they were always playing a chess game - and basically playing all sides as and when they needed to. Truly slippery bastards. Handing onfo over to the plod left, right and centre, whilst simulataneously engaging in nefarious night time activities of their own, when it suited.
You would be ideally placed to confirm RA's honourable behaviour throughout then, would you not? I only ask because some younger anarchists eseem to have a jaundiced version of these events.
Interesting post re CW suspension Ayatollah and that you conducted the inquiry. I did the written CW reply to the inquiry rebutting the searchlight allegations.The problem was that as soon as one lot of allegations were dealt with another lot hove into view and Searchlight would forget all about the earlier lot.Politically the allegations worked to an extent in that CW was forced onto the defensive for a year rather than going forward at The time when it was at it's height. I think a lot on the Left were pleased to see CW cop it for all the slagging off we'd given them![/QUOTE]
Yes solidyeoman, it was a very sorry business the Class War expulsion/suspension - both because the charges were bollocks - but also because even after the suspension was lifted CW never really felt comfortable again to participate fully in AFA. I was personally particularly annoyed that many anarchists were put off working with AFA by all that sectarianism ,because I was to spend much of my anti fascist activity time in 86/87 working in Liverpool, where I had a job then, helping to build a thriving AFA branch alongside a really great bunch of (very) young anarchists - I think from DAM, but I forget now. After I left Liverpool in late 87 they continued to operate a thriving branch for years. When I say "young" I mean young - it was the only time I had experienced people turning up at political meetings with skate boards ! I felt such a sad old git on occasions - but their enthusiasm was inspiring.
Yes solidyeoman, it was a very sorry business the Class War expulsion/suspension - both because the charges were bollocks - but also because even after the suspension was lifted CW never really felt comfortable again to participate fully in AFA. I was personally particularly annoyed that many anarchists were put off working with AFA by all that sectarianism ,because I was to spend much of my anti fascist activity time in 86/87 working in Liverpool, where I had a job then, helping to build a thriving AFA branch alongside a really great bunch of (very) young anarchists - I think from DAM, but I forget now. After I left Liverpool in late 87 they continued to operate a thriving branch for years. When I say "young" I mean young - it was the only time I had experienced people turning up at political meetings with skate boards ! I felt such a sad old git on occasions - but their enthusiasm was inspiring.
I will leave more white space in my text
I will leave more white space in my text
I will leave more white space in my text
I will leave more white space in my text
Only another 96 lines to go ...
you teachers don't still give out lines, do yez?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I was there in CW at the time. Some felt that RA could have backed us up more. Going back into AFA later and working along with Searchlight for a number of years, nearly a decade? It gave credibility, we could argue all day about how much, but credibility still to the Searchlight smear against CW. I think though if we (both CW and RA) had better personal relations at the time we would have handled it differently. There were a few people in both groups who got on well, but a certain almost cultural mistrust was sometimes detectable.
love detective
there's no love too small
One of the analytical points made in the book is that if the only opposition to the centre is coming from the right, the centre will end up responding to and appropriating the right's agenda: "the real potency of the fascist renaissance across Europe is far better judged by how easily its appearance on a national stage can first panic, and then stampede, an erstwhile political centre to the right". This is how the BNP have reacted to Cameron's multiculturalism speech over the weekend:
http://bnp...org.uk/news/cameron%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98war-multiculturalism%E2%80%99-speech-%E2%80%93-another-milestone-%E2%80%98griffinisation%E2%80%99-british-politics
Cameron’s ‘War on Multiculturalism’ Speech – Another Milestone in the ‘Griffinisation’ of British Politics
Sat, 05/02/2011 - 14:23 | BNP News
“A further huge leap for our ideas into the political mainstream.” That is how Nick Griffin MEP sees David Cameron’s self-styled ‘declaration of war against multiculturalism in a speech at an international security conference in Munich.
“A few years ago we had the then Labour Home Secretary David Blunkett admitting that ‘multiculturalism has failed’. Then Gordon Brown used and legitimised our call for ‘British Jobs for British Workers’,” Mr Griffin said in his reaction to Mr Cameron’s speech.
“Just last month we heard Jack Straw stealing whole chunks of speeches I made back in 2005 about the sick racist paedophilia of Muslim drug-rape gangs. And now we have the Prime Minister admitting that the British National Party in our 30-year campaign against the unworkable folly of multiculturalism,” Mr Griffin said.
http://bnp...org.uk/news/cameron%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98war-multiculturalism%E2%80%99-speech-%E2%80%93-another-milestone-%E2%80%98griffinisation%E2%80%99-british-politics
Cameron’s ‘War on Multiculturalism’ Speech – Another Milestone in the ‘Griffinisation’ of British Politics
Sat, 05/02/2011 - 14:23 | BNP News
“A further huge leap for our ideas into the political mainstream.” That is how Nick Griffin MEP sees David Cameron’s self-styled ‘declaration of war against multiculturalism in a speech at an international security conference in Munich.
“A few years ago we had the then Labour Home Secretary David Blunkett admitting that ‘multiculturalism has failed’. Then Gordon Brown used and legitimised our call for ‘British Jobs for British Workers’,” Mr Griffin said in his reaction to Mr Cameron’s speech.
“Just last month we heard Jack Straw stealing whole chunks of speeches I made back in 2005 about the sick racist paedophilia of Muslim drug-rape gangs. And now we have the Prime Minister admitting that the British National Party in our 30-year campaign against the unworkable folly of multiculturalism,” Mr Griffin said.
I would just like to point out that my 'white spaces' issue is to do with text layout and not to do wiv 'lebensraum' in sarf east Lahndon.
The use, or lack of, white space is (for many people) a deciding issue on whether or not they read something. Some people should use more of it because their legitimate points are lost when people can't be arsed to read densely typed text.
It would also be better if some other posters (8dG and cry-baby for example) typed all of theirs very closely - so less people would feel obliged to read their inane ramblings and rantings.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
i'm not really sure why RA's role is still being cast in collaborationist colours. RA walked out and stayed out of an organisation it had helped found just six months earlier, until charges against CW were found to be without substance. In other words RA suspended its own involvement in protest at the decision to bring charges to begin with. In that period AFA activity all but ceased to exist. When RA re-entered it did so with its eyes open. Indeed as has been mentioned before it was RA who were up for expulsion next. So by fighting from within to defeat the second attempt at a coup did RA give 'credibility' to the smear campaign against itself? Hardly, particularly as the RA counter attack eventually saw the wholescale clearing of the stables and a decisive AFA re-launch in 1989. DAM re-joined but CW still didn't?
So instead of happily 'working alongside Searchlight for 10 years' as is alleged, the alliance such as it was had formally come to end by early '89.
It is not denied that there was informal contact on occassion after that, as there was with the ANL, YRE, ARA and so forth. But as has been stated before, when your on the back foot your not in a position to hand-pick your allies. As to who got the most out of these tete a tetes is moot.
That it was Searchlight that was looking to avenge itself on AFA via the World in Action documentary, followed by the planned Panorama expose, (with No Retreat apparently published by someone central to the failed Panorama plot) may provide circumstantial evidence, as to who after a period of reflection, Searchlight came to understand was using who.
The clear out included Searchlight btw.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I'm trying to explain how people felt and how this informed the subsequent refusal to be involved with AFA on an organisational basis. I did not accuse you all of being collaborationists, it was a matter of perceptions.
Many of CW still linked up with AFA/RA on an informal personal basis. The point I made about relations not being of the best was of huge importance too. I wonder who was behind some of the stirring and what their motivations were to be honest.
My side certainly contained some people who did not assist in the fight nor wanted to. This may have been due to squeamishness. It may have been motivated by people having hidden agendas. It has never became clear thus far.
I do know that CW attracted a lot of attention from the state at this time. I regret the lost opportunities that resulted. I don't know if you remember me or not. I do hope that if you do, you know I am being sincere.
Outright accusation? No. Implicit one? Oh yes.
But look TC, I know it's hard to get the essence of what you are saying across in the written word - as it is all open to interpretation and filtered through our own perceptual lenses.
But I will say this. I am really glad you made your comment above and ones earlier on this thread. They have prompted comprehensive responses from Joe.
If your perception of what transpired is at odds with AFA's, then I'm sure you are not alone in that. Therefore I think it is helpful in many ways that your sincere questions/points have resulted in good, honest answers. We all benefit from respectful, honest exchange and these answers can help clear up the matter for anybody reading this thread.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
To be frank it's not a subject that gets discussed at all amongst my old chums. I have felt more than a tad uncomfortable raising it here in such a public way. I see your point however that for many who think they knew what went on, even though they were not there, this exchange may help clarify matters. Whatever anyone thinks, I always regarded RA with respect.
I think that comes through quite clearly in your posts - as does the 'dissonance' that led to your questions.
Your perception of the events around Searchlight was clearly at odds with the respect with which you regard(ed) Red Action so I think it was really healthy that you raised the issue.
This is all very grown up, isn't it? Would it be better if we called each other 'cunts?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
You cunt
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