Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Isn't twentythreedom one of Urban's honored dead?

Sadly yes he died. Not sure why his death should make his opinion any less valid though?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Sadly yes he died. Not sure why his death should make his opinion any less valid though?

I thought maybe it was in poor taste, but this is Urban, and you are Bahnhof Strasse.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I thought maybe it was in poor taste, but this is Urban, and you are Bahnhof Strasse.

Yes it is and yes I am and just cos a poster has died I don't see why their viewpoint should be any less relevant.

 

[WouldBe]

Are you happy with this kind of scene? Or do you think that maybe factory chicken farming should have higher standards of welfare, whatever the cost?

View attachment 280763

I really hope that's not how they are kept. As a photographer you will be aware that the old adage "the camera doesn't lie" isn't true. Lense size, framing, filters etc can all change how the photo turns out. I'm not saying that that photo has been deliberately manipulated but it doesn't show the whole picture.

Although there are rules as to the density chickens should be kept in you can't explain that to the chickens. Who's to say the other half of the shed isn't empty? It does say in the caption the chickens are scrabbling for food. If food has just been dispensed then the chickens will gather together to go after it. So just because that photo shows chickens densely packed doesn't mean that's how they are all the time.

 

[Saul Goodman]

.Although there are rules as to the density chickens should be kept in you can't explain that to the chickens. Who's to say the other half of the shed isn't empty? It does say in the caption the chickens are scrabbling for food. If food has just been dispensed then the chickens will gather together to go after it. So just because that photo shows chickens densely packed doesn't mean that's how they are all the time.

Are you seriously suggesting a media outlet would deliberately manipulate a story in order to sell more newspapers? Preposterous!

 

[Funky_monks]

Unless you've visited ever broiler house in the UK I'm at a complete loss as to what your point is.

There's plenty of evidence for horrendous cruelty in factory farms e.g. Footage reveals chickens in 'horrifying conditions' at big UK producer

Stocking density is mandated by law and they are inspected regularly.

Edited to add, that's clearly a stock photo anyway, so could have come from anywhere.

As I said, seems broadly about right - could be there is more space behind the camera, they do tend to move away from humans.

 

[Funky_monks]

I really hope that's not how they are kept. As a photographer you will be aware that the old adage "the camera doesn't lie" isn't true. Lense size, framing, filters etc can all change how the photo turns out. I'm not saying that that photo has been deliberately manipulated but it doesn't show the whole picture.

Although there are rules as to the density chickens should be kept in you can't explain that to the chickens. Who's to say the other half of the shed isn't empty? It does say in the caption the chickens are scrabbling for food. If food has just been dispensed then the chickens will gather together to go after it. So just because that photo shows chickens densely packed doesn't mean that's how they are all the time.

They won't "scrabble" they are fed ad lib on the feeders you can see stretching the length of the barn. They may scratch in the litter, but that's what chickens do.

 

[WouldBe]

Are you seriously suggesting a media outlet would deliberately manipulate a story in order to sell more newspapers? Preposterous!

Possibly, possibly not. The photographer may have had food thrown down to get a better picture. Or it could be that the photo is being misunderstood / taken out of context.

 

[WouldBe]

They won't "scrabble" they are fed ad lib on the feeders you can see stretching the length of the barn. They may scratch in the litter, but that's what chickens do.

But would they gather together if food was thrown on the floor?

 

[Aladdin]

Maybe the chickens were at a rock concert..





Sorry.....


I'll get my coat...

 

[WouldBe]

Maybe the chickens were at a rock concert..

View attachment 280824



Sorry.....


I'll get my coat...

Listening to the birdie song?

 

[editor]

Possibly, possibly not. The photographer may have had food thrown down to get a better picture.

I don't suppose you have the teensiest, tiniest scrap of evidence to support this wild assertion? Anything at all?

Or is this an example of the kind of thing that's grown increasingly popular in this thread i.e. the Trump-style dismissal of anything unpalatable or uncomfortable as fake news?

 

[editor]

Stocking density is mandated by law and they are inspected regularly.

Does that make it OK in your book then?

And, of course, there's plenty of graphic examples of farms maltreating animals.

 

[Saul Goodman]

And, of course, there's plenty of graphic examples of farms maltreating animals.

Does that make them emit more CO2?

 

[editor]

There are plenty of people who couldn't afford one chicken a week if the price doubled. Do you think this would be a good thing?

Luckily there's plenty of cheap, nutritious alternatives, so they wouldn't have to go hungry.

But let's put it another way: do you think factory farming - and all its inherent cruelty - should be allowed to continue just so a family can eat as much cheap chicken as they like?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Luckily there's plenty of cheap, nutritious alternatives, so they wouldn't have to go hungry.

But let's put it another way: do you think factory farming - and all its inherent cruelty - should be allowed to continue just so a family can eat as much cheap chicken as they like?

I think everyone should be allowed to eat meat if they want to. Feel free to take the factory farming bit up with the factory farmers.

 

[Saul Goodman]

So which thread is it now, the cruelty thread or the CO2 thread? It's hard to keep up.

 

[editor]

I think everyone should be allowed to eat meat if they want to. Feel free to take the factory farming bit up with the factory farmers.

Come on answer the question as it's directly related to your point. Do you think factory farming - and all its inherent cruelty - should be allowed to continue just so a family can eat as much cheap chicken as they like?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Come on answer the question as it's directly related to your point. Do you think factory farming - and all its inherent cruelty - should be allowed to continue just so a family can eat as much cheap chicken as they like?

I answered it.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Do you think the price of chicken should be increased so only the rich can afford to eat it?

 

[editor]

I answered it.

You haven't got any answers. Only pathetic excuses for the inexcusable. I'm putting you on ignore for a week because it's like arguing with a drunk, lying child.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Thank fuck for that!

 

[Spymaster]

This thread's going to die for a week.

 

[Riklet]

As a kid I was very upset when I found out about the conditions battery hens live in etc.

Then I found out about the shit conditions for most humans as I got older. And the massively shitter ones that rapid climate change will cause... millions suffering and dying, mass population extinctions etc.

Quite right to keep the animal rights aspect seperate. Bearing the above ^ in mind I cant say I give a shit about some chickens in a barn...

 

[Funky_monks]

But would they gather together if food was thrown on the floor?

They might, but I'd say its unlikely - those chickens look nearly fully grown (chickens are stocked as day olds into the required space for adults and they grow into it, as it were) so:
a) The barn is as full as its going to get (more or less)
b) They have only ever eaten from feeders suspended at a comfortable height (they are on a winch which raises their height daily so the birds have easy access to food) so would be unused to being fed on the floor so more than likely they'd scatter because nobody will ever have chucked food at them before.

What I think is happening is pretty much the same as what happens when I take a bunch of students to look around broiler sheds - you go in at one end and the birds just move away from you (they usually only see one human). If there's a few of you and you move into the shed a bit (suspect the photographer will have had kit, probably been with an employee etc) that usually leaves a bit of space behind you.

 

[Pickman's model]

As a kid I was very upset when I found out about the conditions battery hens live in etc.

Then I found out about the shit conditions for most humans as I got older. And the massively shitter ones that rapid climate change will cause... millions suffering and dying, mass population extinctions etc.

Quite right to keep the animal rights aspect seperate. Bearing the above ^ in mind I cant say I give a shit about some chickens in a barn...

The sort of people who'd be cruel to animals will be cruel to humans. Human freedom, animal rights - one struggle, one fight

 

[Funky_monks]

Might be worth taking that up with the supermarkets, seeing as the consumer has no control over it.

Interestingly, the supermarkets purport to speak for the consumer because they collect so much data on purchases - Tescos were light years ahead with clubcards, which log your shop and analyse it based on the information you gave them when you took the card.

They compare purchase information to focus group findings. The interesting thing as far as poultry is concerned is that focus groups consistently say that people want higher welfare chicken and would be willing to pay more for it, but purchase data says that price is still the deciding factor.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Interestingly, the supermarkets purport to speak for the consumer because they collect so much data on purchases - Tescos were light years ahead with clubcards, which log your shop and analyse it based on the information you gave them when you took the card.

They compare purchase information to focus group findings. The interesting thing as far as poultry is concerned is that focus groups consistently say that people want higher welfare chicken and would be willing to pay more for it, but purchase data says that price is still the deciding factor.

I'd say price and profit are the deciding factors. Twice as much space per chicken means twice the price or half the profit (Well, for the farmer) and when your competitor won't be going down the same route...

 

[Funky_monks]

The sort of people who'd be cruel to animals will be cruel to humans. Human freedom, animal rights - one struggle, one fight

Depends what you mean though, doesn't it?
According to some, applying a massive swathe of anthropomorphism to looking after animals is the only way not to be cruel.
It's certainly not the case that the majority of people I've met whilst farming were cruel to people, most were very nice.
I've seen plenty of things I would consider to be pretty cruel by people who claim to care deeply for their animals - putting dogs in stupid costumes, breeding and buying dogs that are so overbred and essentially crippled that they will have shitty, short lives full of medical problems (I'd much rather be a broiler than a pug), hairless cats (thats bizarre and cruel), breeding/keeping those ridiculous goldfish with several tails and bulgy eyes that always seem to get swimbladder problems, people who have "rescued" livestock and overfed them so they are barrels of lard who always then seem to get pneumonia (overfeeding is almost as bad as underfeeding), feeding animals inappropriate diets (carnivores being fed vegetarian diets) etc

Because we have this massive disconnect now (urban populations who haven't been rural in generations), people are very unfamiliar with livestock keeping, and therefore make suppositions that aren't necessarily true.

 

[Funky_monks]

I'd say price and profit are the deciding factors. Twice as much space per chicken means twice the price or half the profit (Well, for the farmer) and when your competitor won't be going down the same route...

Higher welfare chicken commands a premium and is often slightly more profitable per unit - however, it is more volatile as a market because as soon as there's a downturn, people abandon it and the market is oversupplied.