Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[WouldBe]

Are you happy with this kind of scene? Or do you think that maybe factory chicken farming should have higher standards of welfare, whatever the cost?

View attachment 280763

Where does that photo come from?

 

[editor]

Where does that photo come from?

From this article:

Revealed: true cost of Britain’s addiction to factory-farmed chicken

A lack of policy has allowed industrial chicken farms to multiply in certain parts of the UK – with a lack of consideration of the environmental and social impacts.

theconversation.com

Caption: Chickens raised for meat scrabble for space in an IPU

The article says:

What this all brings home is the wildly unnatural price of chicken in the UK. Why can you buy a whole chicken at Tesco for under £3? The actual, but largely hidden, costs associated with the production of cheap chicken are not passed on to consumers. Neither are they paid by the owners of multinational meat processing conglomerates, Tesco shareholders or poultry farmers.

The costs are being paid by local communities and environments in the damage to the landscape, air and water pollution and quality of life. They are also being paid by the taxpayer, in terms of health costs or pollution clean-up costs, or renewable energy subsidy costs.

Chicken is viewed as a healthy and convenient source of protein, but there are other more sustainable, cheaper and healthier protein options which could also be grown in the UK. These include peas, beans, nuts and lentils, some of which have the advantage of fixing nitrogen in the soil rather than increasing nutrients in the environment. People could substitute such plant-based protein for chicken in many meals.

So don’t wince when you see the price of chickens raised in better conditions – there are many reasons it’s more expensive and it’s not just the better environment the animals experience. You’ll be paying farmers who resist the dominance of multinational agri-industry and who are inflicting less harm on rural communities and localities

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's an interesting point though, isn't it? It's morally repugnant that only rich people would be able to afford meat.

And petrol, let the plebs walk whilst those with wedge munch on biltong at the wheel of their Mercs.

 

[andysays]

As a general point before I "unwatch" this thread, it seems a shame that once again the thread has got diverted away from the environmental impact of meat and dairy, which is a subject worth discussing properly, and the focus has switched instead to questions of animal welfare.

Not saying animal welfare isn't important or worthy of discussion, but it should be possible to discuss the stated topic of the thread without it regularly being dragged off topic by suggestions or accusations that individual posters don't care about animal welfare, which really aren't going to help constructive discussion of the environmental issues.

 

[Flavour]

The real problem being massive inequality, obviously

 

[Funky_monks]

It ties in with the topic of the thread, and fossil fuels do cause loads of health and environmental damage. Should we also increase the cost of jet fuel so only the rich can fly? I'm sure they'd love it but it's hardly fair on everyone else.

Indeed, the topic of the thread was the environmental impact of animal ag.
It does seem to have moved on to welfare for no apparent reason

 

[Funky_monks]

Where does that photo come from?

I mean, it looks like no broiler house I've ever been in in terms of stocking density, but the lighting/cleanliness seem right

 

[editor]

Indeed, the topic of the thread was the environmental impact of animal ag.
It does seem to have moved on to welfare for no apparent reason

Err, because this thread is all about how to 'reduce your environmental impact on the planet,' and factory farms directly contribute to those environmental problems.

 

[editor]

I mean, it looks like no broiler house I've ever been in in terms of stocking density, but the lighting/cleanliness seem right

Unless you've visited ever broiler house in the UK I'm at a complete loss as to what your point is.

There's plenty of evidence for horrendous cruelty in factory farms e.g. Footage reveals chickens in 'horrifying conditions' at big UK producer

 

[WouldBe]

From this article:

Revealed: true cost of Britain’s addiction to factory-farmed chicken

A lack of policy has allowed industrial chicken farms to multiply in certain parts of the UK – with a lack of consideration of the environmental and social impacts.

theconversation.com

Caption: Chickens raised for meat scrabble for space in an IPU

The article says:

That looks as though it's overstocked the earlier photo

looks more like the regulations but I'd still like to see more room for them

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Killing yourself will be more effective

^^^^ first reply to this thread.

Still as valid as when it was posted.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Unless you've visited ever broiler house in the UK I'm at a complete loss as to what your point is.

There's plenty of evidence for horrendous cruelty in factory farms e.g. Footage reveals chickens in 'horrifying conditions' at big UK producer

The Guardian isn't a credible source.

 

[editor]

The Guardian isn't a credible source.

In which case you'd have no problem swiftly finding multiple credible sources that discredit this story.

Please list them here:
1.
2.
3.

 

[Saul Goodman]

In which case you'd have no problem swiftly finding multiple credible sources that discredit this story.

Please list them here:
1.
2.
3.

 

[editor]

Still waiting for those credible sources, Mr Trump.

I mean if it was all fake news as you;re claiming, then there must have been high profile lawsuits all over the place, yet I can't find evidence of a single one. Why is that, do you think?

So come on: produce some proof or shush now.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Still waiting for those credible sources, Mr Trump.

I mean if it was all fake news as you;re claiming, then there must have been high profile lawsuits all over the place, yet I can't find evidence of a single one. Why is that, do you think?

So come on: produce some proof or shush now.

Show me where I said it was fake news.
Or is this you reading things that were never posted, again?
Groundhog day...

 

[editor]

Show me where I said it was fake news.
Or is this you reading things that were never posted, again?
Groundhog day...

You declared the Guardian wasn't a credible source after I posted up that story. So now explain what isn't factual in that story and support that claim with some credible sources please.

Mind you, you made a big enough fool of yourself with your bizarre denial about the total dominance of chicken factory farming in the UK, so I expect you'll go into another foot-shooting bout of denial.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You declared the Guardian wasn't a credible source after I posted up that story. So now explain what isn't factual in that story and support that claim with some credible sources please.

Mind you, you made a big enough fool of yourself with your bizarre denial about the total dominance of chicken factory farming in the UK, so I expect you'll go into another foot-shooting bout of denial.

You're funny

 

[Spymaster]

Absolutely bizarre

 

[Johnny Vodka]

It's an interesting point though, isn't it? It's morally repugnant that only rich people would be able to afford meat.

Plenty of poor people (and indeed rich people) get by quite happily (and healthily) on very little or no meat. I find it more morally repugnant that it's a race to the bottom as far as animal welfare is concerned.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Plenty of poor people (and indeed rich people) get by quite happily (and healthily) on very little or no meat. I find it more morally repugnant that it's a race to the bottom as far as animal welfare is concerned.

Might be worth taking that up with the supermarkets, seeing as the consumer has no control over it.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Might be worth taking that up with the supermarkets, seeing as the consumer has no control over it.

The consumer can decide to buy meat of animals that have been raised in higher welfare conditions. They can also choose to buy less, or indeed no, meat.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The consumer can decide to buy meat of animals that have been raised in higher welfare conditions. They can also choose to buy less, or indeed no, meat.

Lots of people can't afford anything more expensive. Do you think they shouldn't eat meat?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Lots of people can't afford anything more expensive. Do you think they shouldn't eat meat?

It's more important that people have access to generally healthy food than tonnes of meat. There are also ways of stretching meat out - including the flavour of meat and perhaps a few chunks of meat in a dish rather than eating lots of it. Do you think everyone in the world eats meat everyday? Do you think they ought to, or have a right to regardless of the cruelty or environmental consequences, especially when there are perfectly healthy alternatives?

 

[Saul Goodman]

It's more important that people have access to generally healthy food than tonnes of meat. There are also ways of stretching meat out - including the flavour of meat and perhaps a few chunks of meat in a dish rather than eating lots of it. Do you think everyone in the world eats meat everyday? Do you think they ought to, or have a right to regardless of the cruelty or environmental consequences, especially when there are perfectly healthy alternatives?

There are plenty of people who couldn't afford one chicken a week if the price doubled. Do you think this would be a good thing?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Dp

 

[Poot]

There are plenty of people who couldn't afford one chicken a week if the price doubled. Do you think this would be a good thing?

Sounds like wages and benefits need to increase to me.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

There are plenty of people who couldn't afford one chicken a week if the price doubled. Do you think this would be a good thing?

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. Poverty is a bad thing, but not eating chicken weekly isn't a bad thing.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

^^^^ first reply to this thread.

Still as valid as when it was posted.

Isn't twentythreedom one of Urban's honored dead?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Sounds like wages and benefits need to increase to me.

What will happen to the cost of food if the cost of wages increases?