Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[editor]

But the poster provided some evidence to the contrary, and you said there was 'no evidence'.

That study applies to Poland and several posters have offered mitigating factors why they may not being 'doing' vegan so well.

The study, by University College London's Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health, said parents must be aware of the risks of vegan diets.

The authors said vegan children should be given vitamin B12 and vitamin D supplements to reduce potentially long-term health consequences of being raised on plants only.

Personally, I wouldn't put a child on a vegan diet but I would absolutely encourage them to entirely avoid meat given its massive detrimental impact on the planet.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is the less favourable cardiometabolic risk for vegetarians relative only to vegans or generally?

It's relative to meat-eaters:

"All results are reported relative to omnivores."

 

[CNT36]

It's relative to meat-eaters:

"All results are reported relative to omnivores."

Thank you. That's a bugger.

I will read it properly in a bit.

 

[editor]

And here's another deadly impact of the meat industry

Air pollution remains a major cause of death in the United States, one usually associated with tailpipe exhaust and factory and power plant smokestacks. Now new research shows that 16,000 U.S. deaths are the result of air polluted by growing and raising food—and 80 percent of those result from producing animal products like meat, dairy, and eggs.

Additional deaths are attributable to products we don’t eat, including ethanol, leather, or wool. That brings the total number of deaths from agricultural air pollution to 17,900 a year

If consumers adopted a national dietary shift it would have a big impact on air quality, the scientists say. If the U.S. changed dietary preferences from red meat to poultry, for instance, they estimated 6,300 deaths could be prevented. By going vegetarian, vegan, or flexitarian—eating meat sparingly—consumers could prevent anywhere from 10,700 deaths to 13,100 deaths as a result of air pollution, they estimate.

Meat production leads to thousands of air quality-related deaths annually

Agriculture is a major source of air pollution, killing an estimated 17,900 people in the U.S. every year, according to a new study.

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[editor]

And it appears you may well be happier if you don't eat dead animals and contribute needlessly to the climate crisis

Tracking Happiness asked 11,537 people in the USA to track their moods and asked about their diets. The results were then grouped into four categories: vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian and meat-eater. Vegans reported 7% higher happiness rating than meat-eaters, who fell below the average rating of 6.90.

Interestingly, the study suggested that it wasn’t just the plants that were making people happier; happier people are more likely to turn plant-based. Out of the 8,988 meat-eaters surveyed, those who reported the highest happiness ratings were more likely to adopt a fully vegan diet in the future. The main driver for going vegan or vegetarian, according to the study, is the environment, with 32% of the surveyed herbivores saying that protecting the environment was their biggest motive, and these were the people who had the highest happiness scores. Those who cited animal cruelty tended to have the lowest ratings within the plant-based groups.

Is there any truth to vegans being happier than meat-eaters?

A new study claims that chomping on plant-based foods can make us happier than eating meat. Here's why.

www.stylist.co.uk

 

[kenny g]

Well it is not necessarily down to being thick or personal choices. It has been a while since I have been to Poland but there seemed to us that the availability of vegan and vegetarian options varied greatly between European countries. We remember the Czech republic as being particularly bad. In the UK the catering for non-meat diets has improved vastly in recent years. The availability may have a great effect on how healthy such diets are. So it could be something particular to Poland or something universal but it is unlikely to be due to people being thick (though you were perhaps not entirely serious using that word). When we had our daughter 5 and a bit years ago there were no concerns raised about her going straight into a vegetarian diet by midwives, health visitors etc but there was some about her going on a vegan diet (which we never intended).

Have you read the whole paper? Is the less favourable cardiometabolic risk for vegetarians relative only to vegans or generally? I imagine that a wholesale substitution of cheese for meat among vegetarians could be pretty unhealthy.

I can echo that. Travelling in Germany last year we went to some old style vegetarian restaurants, especially in the Potsdam, which had almost no vegan options but catastrophic quantities of dairy. Things like quiches and "pizzas" which were basically slabs of cheese on bread. As someone with gall stone issues at the time and with two vegans in the family it was only once we hit the vietnamese cafe's that life became bearable. Berlin was great though. Loads of eateries which revelled in veg.

 

[kenny g]

And here's another deadly impact of the meat industry

Meat production leads to thousands of air quality-related deaths annually

Agriculture is a major source of air pollution, killing an estimated 17,900 people in the U.S. every year, according to a new study.

www.nationalgeographic.com

That's the US factory farm situation. My lamb steak from a lamb that meanders around some welsh hill top has a completely different carbon footprint to a steak from an intensively reared steer.

 

[CNT36]

I can echo that. Travelling in Germany last year we went to some old style vegetarian restaurants, especially in the Potsdam, which had almost no vegan options but catastrophic quantities of dairy. Things like quiches and "pizzas" which were basically slabs of cheese on bread. As someone with gall stone issues at the time and with two vegans in the family it was only once we hit the vietnamese cafe's that life became bearable. Berlin was great though. Loads of eateries which revelled in veg.

I remember Germany was quite bad for it. The first time I went I had a slab of some sort of meat for every meal. I was grey when I got home.

 

[Aladdin]

Biggest way to reduce my impact on the earth is to not exist

 

[editor]

That's the US factory farm situation. My lamb steak from a lamb that meanders around some welsh hill top has a completely different carbon footprint to a steak from an intensively reared steer.

But, sadly, the vast majority of meat doesn't meander around some welsh hill top.

And then of course there's the issue of where the feed is coming from

The Amazon rainforest is still being burnt to make way for soya to feed the world’s livestock, despite supposedly tough rules designed to prevent precisely this deforestation.

An investigation has uncovered how three of the world’s biggest food businesses have purchased soya from companies whose supply chains have been the subject of concerns over links to illegal deforestation and forest fires in the Brazilian Amazon.

Big Meat, deforestation and the money trail

www.thebureauinvestigates.com

 

[editor]

That's the US factory farm situation. My lamb steak from a lamb that meanders around some welsh hill top has a completely different carbon footprint to a steak from an intensively reared steer.

You might find this interesting

As a rule of thumb, one can be almost certain that meat products, local or not, are less sustainable than vegetables imported even from the furthest point of the globe. Medical or ethical considerations aside, emissions from meat are simply too high, a fact which makes food miles a negligible part of the comparison.

Why locally sourced products aren't always better for the environment than imported food

One can be almost certain that meat products, local or not, are less sustainable than vegetables imported even from the furthest point of the globe

inews.co.uk

 

[ddraig]

The vast majority of Indian non-meat-eaters are not vegan as they consume dairy - lacto-vegetarians.

If they are living in areas without access to vitamin supplements or food fortified with vitamin B12 that has been cultured using bacteria in a lab, Indian vegans are extremely likely to be anaemic.

Another claim with no link

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Biggest way to reduce my impact on the earth is to not exist

Maybe, but your not existing won't do anything to reduce my impact on the Earth.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Thank you. That's a bugger.

I will read it properly in a bit.

All the research I see on this topic reinforces Michael Pollan's injunction to 'Eat food [by which he means fresh produce]. Not too much. Mostly plants.' But the research does also reinforce the idea that there are certain specific things that we need animal products for (which may be remedied by supplements). So if you eat a vegan diet, you need to plan in a way that you don't if you're not vegan. The vegetarian result found by this paper may very well have a cause due to the specific cohort - loads of cheese instead of meat would probably do it, as you suggested. The researchers themselves were surprised by the result, and suggest further research to find out why.

 

[editor]

But the research does also reinforce the idea that there are certain specific things that we need animal products for.

Like? What do I 'need' animal products for?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Like? What do I 'need' animal products for?

Vitamin B12.

 

[ddraig]

All the research I see on this topic reinforces Michael Pollan's injunction to 'Eat food [by which he means fresh produce]. Not too much. Mostly plants.' But the research does also reinforce the idea that there are certain specific things that we need animal products for (which may be remedied by supplements). So if you eat a vegan diet, you need to plan in a way that you don't if you're not vegan. The vegetarian result found by this paper may very well have a cause due to the specific cohort - loads of cheese instead of meat would probably do it, as you suggested. The researchers themselves were surprised by the result, and suggest further research to find out why.

No link yet again, just projection and assertion

 

[ddraig]

Vitamin B12.

Tablets/Spray, don't need it from killing animals, next

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Considering how the standards of our meat is going post-brexit, I will be avoiding it as much I can. But already, meat and animal products in general are not good for you, not good for the environment, and certainly very bad news for the animals.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Vitamin B12.

There are plenty of non-meat ways of getting B12. Marmite for one, but there are others.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are plenty of non-meat ways of getting B12. Marmite for one, but there are others.

Yep. It's added to them. The B12 is cultured in a lab. That's fine if you live in an industrialised society where such products are available.

 

[peterkro]

Yep. It's added to them. The B12 is cultured in a lab. That's fine if you live in an industrialised society where such products are available.

There are two types of seaweed and one fungi that contain substantial amounts of B12.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are two types of seaweed and one fungi that contain substantial amounts of B12.

The fungus is disputed - the amount you would need to eat amounts to kilos of the stuff. But again, not at all widely available.

There are ways to eat a healthy vegan diet if you live in a Western society. Not so easy in non-industrialised societies.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

There are two types of seaweed and one fungi that contain substantial amounts of B12.

Those sheets of seaweed you can get are so yummie.

 

[editor]

Vitamin B12.

Nope. I get all the Vit B12 I need without going anywhere near a dead animal.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Considering how the standards of our meat is going post-brexit, I will be avoiding it as much I can. But already, meat and animal products in general are not good for you

Do you have evidence to back up these statements?

 

[kenny g]

Yep. It's added to them. The B12 is cultured in a lab. That's fine if you live in an industrialised society where such products are available.

Last time I checked we do. And as b12 is in marmite which is beer yeast extract I guess the level of industrialization needed is a homebrew kit.

 

[platinumsage]

Last time I checked we do. And as b12 is in marmite which is beer yeast extract I guess the level of industrialization needed is a homebrew kit.

B12 is in Marmite because it's added during production. Good luck making enough B12 with a home-brew kit if concentrated industrial beer leftovers contain such insufficient quantities that supplementation during production is necessary to bring it up to useful levels.

 

[maomao]

Part of my problem with veganism is the amount of supplements and processed food required but 'not being able to do it in rural Africa' isn't much of an argument if you ask me.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

FWIW I can't stand vegan cheese. Mrs K has tried getting in to it, but has just realised how low in protein it is. It does not function as a safe substitute for dairy cheese. It's also very high in saturated fat.