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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

ViolentPanda toggle passenger got a letter from the dwp saying they would ask the tribunal to dismiss his appeal, and sent him a bundle of papers outlining the reasons for the decisions they made.

Does he need to do anything next, or just wait for the tribunal date to be sent through?

I think this is their evidence being presented to the tribunal and it's been sent on because it is in effect a trial and you've got the right to see the evidence being presented . basically, they can't present evidence that they don't disclose to you in advance (barring a few very exceptional circumstances).


But this is your chance to have a good look at how they have supported their decision and to challenge their reasoning. YOu can then look at the places where you feel their reasoning is wrong and have some time to find evidence that supports your case. If you don't have that evidence to hand, you need to start to gather that. eg, more medical letters. and if applicable, then going through it and looking at whether you think you have a case based on their 'misunderstanding' of what you've already given them. if you do plan to gather more evidence, you need to send that to the tribunal.

but I believe that the next stage will be that you will be contacted by the tribunal service.

https://www.gov.uk/social-security-child-support-tribunal/appeal-tribunal

this is well into the grounds of giving legal advice, so comes the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, or other professional and it would probably be a good idea to confirm what I've summarized here with the tribunal service's helpline on that link.


and my expereince of supporting Bakunin at an appeal was that they were sympathetic, frustrated with the dwp and will most likely be looking for a reason to support the claimant. we were also warned directly that the dwp have been known to respond to loosing an appeal with an immediate reasessment and other such bollocks. he also got some advice from the doctor on the tribunal to take immediate action with regards to his current medical situation. basically, give them everything you can and they will support you if they can.

To add: the tribunal can consider new evidence, but their decision will be made on your condition at the time of the assessment. this was repeatedly reiterated to us during the hearing. descriptions of his mental state and medical condition should be made on how it was then. new evidence needs to support that, not be focussed on any changes since then. so if you wanted to add evidence, it would need to be stating that problems X and Y has been ongoing since time-before-assessment-date.

use this time to make notes of all the things you think should be discussed at the appeal. then when you are asked if you want to add anything, then you can do so. focus on the medical stuff and your daily living.don't be upset if they stop you partway through explaining a point, it's probably because they don't need further confirmation of that, and is a good sign. just move onto the next thing you think should be mentioned. but if the expereince i sat through is anything to go by, there won't be much that is not covered by their questions. your grounds for apppeal will have told them where to look, and your answers won't be doing much more than confirming your written evidence from your paperwork.

they know you think atos are shit and the assessment is unfair, that is why you are there, and they won't be in the slightest bit interested in hearing a rant about that - that their experience of listening to claimants stories mean they can probably give better than you. atos is not on trial at your tribunal. the only mention of the assessment will be to remind you of it's date and to discuss your condition at that time.

and take your own copies of everything with you
 
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toggle is spot on, if I remember rightly from longdog's appeal last year. As she says, it's in effect a court and the DWP are being asked to get their evidence in first. There probably won't be anything new or startling in there; just copies of the reports from the original assessment and decision, and from 'mandatory reconsideration,' which will probably be bollocks. Take the opportunity to go through and pick out all of the errors and disputable points, come up with ways to challenge them and be prepared to fight your corner. You may not need to, though. Me and doggy went into his appeal hearing last year expecting a grilling: in the event it lasted all of five minutes before the judge (who was a big, bluff northern chap and very affable in that setting, though I imagine being sentenced by him might be somewhat different!) smiled pleasantly and said they were going to allow the appeal and overturn the decision. For all the DWP's paperwork will suggest they're going to turn up and argue the toss, they didn't on that occasion and I gather they usually don't. In other words, although the tribunal hearing is a big deal, you may well find it's not half as formidable as they like to lead you to believe. Good luck passenger. :)

*edit* I see that zippyRN has had the heave-ho. Good. :cool:
 
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I think this is their evidence being presented to the tribunal and it's been sent on because it is in effect a trial and you've got the right to see the evidence being presented . basically, they can't present evidence that they don't disclose to you in advance (barring a few very exceptional circumstances).


But this is your chance to have a good look at how they have supported their decision and to challenge their reasoning. YOu can then look at the places where you feel their reasoning is wrong and have some time to find evidence that supports your case. If you don't have that evidence to hand, you need to start to gather that. eg, more medical letters. and if applicable, then going through it and looking at whether you think you have a case based on their 'misunderstanding' of what you've already given them. if you do plan to gather more evidence, you need to send that to the tribunal.

but I believe that the next stage will be that you will be contacted by the tribunal service.

https://www.gov.uk/social-security-child-support-tribunal/appeal-tribunal

this is well into the grounds of giving legal advice, so comes the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, or other professional and it would probably be a good idea to confirm what I've summarized here with the tribunal service's helpline on that link.


and my expereince of supporting Bakunin at an appeal was that they were sympathetic, frustrated with the dwp and will most likely be looking for a reason to support the claimant. we were also warned directly that the dwp have been known to respond to loosing an appeal with an immediate reasessment and other such bollocks. he also got some advice from the doctor on the tribunal to take immediate action with regards to his current medical situation. basically, give them everything you can and they will support you if they can.

To add: the tribunal can consider new evidence, but their decision will be made on your condition at the time of the assessment. this was repeatedly reiterated to us during the hearing. descriptions of his mental state and medical condition should be made on how it was then. new evidence needs to support that, not be focussed on any changes since then. so if you wanted to add evidence, it would need to be stating that problems X and Y has been ongoing since time-before-assessment-date.

use this time to make notes of all the things you think should be discussed at the appeal. then when you are asked if you want to add anything, then you can do so. focus on the medical stuff and your daily living.don't be upset if they stop you partway through explaining a point, it's probably because they don't need further confirmation of that, and is a good sign. just move onto the next thing you think should be mentioned. but if the expereince i sat through is anything to go by, there won't be much that is not covered by their questions. your grounds for apppeal will have told them where to look, and your answers won't be doing much more than confirming your written evidence from your paperwork.

they know you think atos are shit and the assessment is unfair, that is why you are there, and they won't be in the slightest bit interested in hearing a rant about that - that their experience of listening to claimants stories mean they can probably give better than you. atos is not on trial at your tribunal. the only mention of the assessment will be to remind you of it's date and to discuss your condition at that time.

and take your own copies of everything with you

^^^^This!
 
If I recall correctly there was some entirely new flight of fantasy in the DWP's submission to the tribunal to add to the already impressive pile of fantasy flights they'd previously come up with :D

Come to think of it there was, wasn't there. Was that the bit about having installed smoke alarms, or that they already farted that one out earlier in the process?
 
I just thought I should probably mention that my DLA renewal was processed quickly - only two weeks! I'm sure part of it was them looking at my mountain of evidence (it counted as a parcel at the post office :D) and thinking fuck it.

does seem like there are times that when you provide a small mountain of paperwork, they decide they couldn't be bothered to try to understand it and just let it through.

and well done.
 
thanks guys will be on later will look at this stuff
i have no more medical stuff you only have to look at my leg
and i can`t wear a shoe on my right foot i have saved that as back
up for when i go to tribunal

ok, then ti's about challenging the points they have given you for various things. you already know where they are wrong, i'd suspect, but make sure you know how to explain why they are wrong, and can give examples of how you fit the criteria for higher points,
 
ok, then ti's about challenging the points they have given you for various things. you already know where they are wrong, i'd suspect, but make sure you know how to explain why they are wrong, and can give examples of how you fit the criteria for higher points,
eqational girl , violent panda and a little help from me sent a great letter
doing exactly that with the tribunal form, its a really good letter and has given
me a great deal of hope, i feel i have done all i can at the moment but still can`t
help worrying :oops:
 
eqational girl , violent panda and a little help from me sent a great letter
doing exactly that with the tribunal form, its a really good letter and has given
me a great deal of hope, i feel i have done all i can at the moment but still can`t
help worrying :oops:

It's impossible to stop worrying about something so important to your future health, so don't feel bad about not being able to completely shrug off the little niggles. Plus, you can never quite erase the grip that "brown envelope syndrome" has on all of us.
 
eqational girl , violent panda and a little help from me sent a great letter
doing exactly that with the tribunal form, its a really good letter and has given
me a great deal of hope, i feel i have done all i can at the moment but still can`t
help worrying :oops:

ok.

one last thing

are you sure there anything new at all in the paperwork you've been sent?

as Roadkill said, the dwp can make up new bullshit at any stage so it's worth having a really good look for any new miracles they have performed.


I know i may be pushing at old ground and spelling out the obvious here, but I also know how hard it is to think when this shit is happening to you or someone you care about. so i'll say everything.

himself had a panic attack a few days before and was having half a dozen stress related absence seizures a day for weeks (the doctor who asked about them suggested one or 2 a month when asking about them) i managed to wait until about an hour after the hearing before going wibble and then throwing up. thinking was not high on the agenda.
 
Aye. Do check for anything new, but do also check for any errors you might have missed before, and ideally get someone else to have a look over it, since two pairs of eyes are often better than one. Much of it is no doubt down to incompetence rather than malice, but it doesn't make much difference right now: every cock-up they make is an open goal for you.
 
Aye. Do check for anything new, but do also check for any errors you might have missed before, and ideally get someone else to have a look over it, since two pairs of eyes are often better than one. Much of it is no doubt down to incompetence rather than malice, but it doesn't make much difference right now: every cock-up they make is an open goal for you.


ah yes, 'the more you know what it says, the less you actually see what is actually on the page.
 
well i got a date, for an esa medical so hopefully they will put me
in the support group,and in september a date for my tribunal re pip in
october so fingers crossed should all be over in the next
7 weeks :)
Fingers crossed. This is all stress you don't need so I hope it's not affecting you too much.
 
Is the ESA support group money income assessed?

It depends. If you're currently on contributions-based ESA and you get put in the support group, then it continues to be contributions-based. Otherwise ESA stops being contributions-based after a year.

If you're already on income-based ESA then it will continue to be income-based whether you're in the support group or WRAG.
 
I'm on contributions ESA just not getting any money as my year ran out and I didn't apply for income assessment as Chemistry earns.
But I've just been put in the support group. So the letter says I'm getting money.
 
So you kept on signing on for the NI, so didn't stop the claim? I think that should mean it's contributions-based still.
Yeah. I've even got recent post off them confirming I'm contributions. It's just the payments ran out. I've been consistently assessed as unfit since then and they've been doing my NI.

Benefits and Work Forum :: Topic: Continuation of payment of ESA (CB) after a year (3/4) last post of that page is the info I think I need.


I'm just having a panic that I need to give them Chemistry's details. but I think not. I've been on hold to them today (also would like to know when I'll actually get a payment) but I've given up.
 
well date one, with the DWP tomorrow 10.30 ATOS eas medical
trying to get into the support group, knowing my luck they will say i`m fit
to work :facepalm: well chin up having an early night got to be up at 5 am
 
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