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Arise Sir Tony (Blair)

It’s a false premise, though. War criminals do get honoured. I get that people are venting, but they’re misdirecting their energy due to poor political analysis. They seem to think the structure can be made honourable again. It can’t. The structure itself is rancid.

I was tempted to sign the petition just to point this out, but I wasn’t sure whether we are officially a post-irony society yet.
 
It just shows that I have a vaguely realistic measure of what "most people" think.

"Extreme" is a relative term not an absolute measure.

People who describe Tony Blair as extremist just show that they have almost no interaction with mainstream society, presumably because they consider themselves so morally superior to the masses.
Yes you're so much better than people like me and only your definitions count.

But I think you just have a deliberately stubborn and different meaning for the term extremist than me.

And what does mainstream society mean? And how do you know that I have 'no interaction' with it?

I don't consider myself superior either, though you seem to think you are that's for sure.
 
Latest on the petition from the Daily Fail :D

More than 350,000 sign petition against Tony Blair's knighthood as campaigners say it's a 'kick in the teeth' to victims of Iraq war​

 
It just shows that I have a vaguely realistic measure of what "most people" think.

"Extreme" is a relative term not an absolute measure.

People who describe Tony Blair as extremist just show that they have almost no interaction with mainstream society, presumably because they consider themselves so morally superior to the masses.
The ideas of "mainstream society" are generally the ideas of the ruling class. That's kind of how the system works and keeps on working. I say "generally" because there are exceptions, i.e. when revolutions happen. Blair is clearly an extremist because he was prepared to defend the ruling class and its ideas at the cost of millions of Iraqi (and other) lives. Sure you can say things like he was a centrist so how can the centre be extreme... I'd say, check the body count and the even more fucked up world (especially in the Middle East) that is his and his allies' legacy.
 
The ideas of "mainstream society" are generally the ideas of the ruling class. That's kind of how the system works and keeps on working. I say "generally" because there are exceptions, i.e. when revolutions happen. Blair is clearly an extremist because he was prepared to defend the ruling class and its ideas at the cost of millions of Iraqi (and other) lives. Sure you can say things like he was a centrist so how can the centre be extreme... I'd say, check the body count and the even more fucked up world (especially in the Middle East) that is his and his allies' legacy.
Very much this. It’s twisting language and morality out of all shape to say that it’s not extreme to cause the deaths of millions and the destruction of Iraqi infrastructure etc. Those are extreme outcomes.

As Marx and Engels say (in The German Ideology), “the ideas of the ruling class are, in every age, the ruling ideas”. That does not equate to them being “moderate”.
 
Another example would be climate change. Are the extremists those who glue themselves to motorways or those who have known the science for decades yet acquiesced (at best) with the destruction of the environment?
Including God's Oil-man on earth...who recently claimed that when he worked in the industry ideas about climate change were not then known about; fucking liar.

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Knighthoods should go to people who have done something outstanding for the good of humanity. Banting and Best, Berners-Lee, Fleming, Brunel, Telford etc, they are the type people who deserve national plaudits, not some semi-articulate footballer.
Hackneyed shite.
Last footballer to get a knighthood was Kenny Dalglish, and it was for his services to football, charity and the enormous support he's given over the years to the Hillsborough families.
You could have picked any number of other unworthies like Denis Thatcher, Cyril Smith, or Nick Fucking Clegg, but no, you had a pop at an easy Mail target.

Whole system has always been rotten to the core, the establishment delousing itself with shiny things
 
Hackneyed shite.
Last footballer to get a knighthood was Kenny Dalglish, and it was for his services to football, charity and the enormous support he's given over the years to the Hillsborough families.
You could have picked any number of other unworthies like Denis Thatcher, Cyril Smith, or Nick Fucking Clegg, but no, you had a pop at an easy Mail target.

Whole system has always been rotten to the core, the establishment delousing itself with shiny things
Let us not forget Sir Jimmy Savile, knighted by both the Queen and the Pope, and neither revoked.
 
It just shows that I have a vaguely realistic measure of what "most people" think.

"Extreme" is a relative term not an absolute measure.

People who describe Tony Blair as extremist just show that they have almost no interaction with mainstream society, presumably because they consider themselves so morally superior to the masses.
Tell me this teuchter - and this get's grim (imperialism is no jolly affair) - but, was implemtenting the sanctions on Iraq in the 1990's that deliberately denied vital medical supplies to Iraqi children, leading to atleast hundreds of thousands of their deaths, extremist? I know what I think the answer is and there are other words that I can think of related to that. The ruling class knew what the resullt of the sanctions were and didn't care, Madeleine Albright even stated that the cost of lives lost was 'worth it'.

That was supported by Blair's advisors and no doubt Blair himself.
 
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Hackneyed shite.
Last footballer to get a knighthood was Kenny Dalglish, and it was for his services to football, charity and the enormous support he's given over the years to the Hillsborough families.
You could have picked any number of other unworthies like Denis Thatcher, Cyril Smith, or Nick Fucking Clegg, but no, you had a pop at an easy Mail target.

Whole system has always been rotten to the core, the establishment delousing itself with shiny things

I could equally have said actors, singers, motor racers etc.

You are of course entirely entitled to voice your opinion, just as I am completely free to regard your opinion as being utter bullshit.
 
Let us not forget Sir Jimmy Savile, knighted by both the Queen and the Pope, and neither revoked.

Well, Saville was dead before his crime was made public, and I think you have to be still alive to have an 'honour' revoked, but I take you point.

From the Cabinet Office:

An honour can be withdrawn (or 'forfeited') for a variety of reasons, including criminal conviction and bringing the honours system into disrepute. Only living individuals are able to forfeit their honour. It is not possible to withdraw an honour from someone who has died.
 
Well, Saville was dead before his crime was made public, and I think you have to be still alive to have an 'honour' revoked, but I take you point.

From the Cabinet Office:

An honour can be withdrawn (or 'forfeited') for a variety of reasons, including criminal conviction and bringing the honours system into disrepute. Only living individuals are able to forfeit their honour. It is not possible to withdraw an honour from someone who has died.
It's not possIble only because they say it's not possible.
 
It's not possIble only because they say it's not possible.

What would withdrawing Saville's knighthood achieve? It isn't as if there is a 'good name' to lose.

Again though, I take your point, whilst regarding it as a tad pointless. Stripping an honour from a dead person is hardly going to bother them, as they are dead.
 
Which bit is utter bullshit?

That I specifically targeted footballers. I targeted a class of people, sports people, who are extraordinarily well paid etc, but have done nothing of any real note or benefit to humanity.

Thomas Telford built the Caledonian Canal, still in use today, and it may be argued that by the creation of the canal, he was amongst the first environmentalists, the saving in fuel, primarily fishing boats not having to round the top of Scotland, was huge. His achievement stands today, Murray hitting a ball over a net will be forgotten in fifty years, whilst the Caledonian Canal will still be in use.

If honours must be given, give them to people of substance.
 
That I specifically targeted footballers. I targeted a class of people, sports people, who are extraordinarily well paid etc, but have done nothing of any real note or benefit to humanity.

Thomas Telford built the Caledonian Canal, still in use today, and it may be argued that by the creation of the canal, he was amongst the first environmentalists, the saving in fuel, primarily fishing boats not having to round the top of Scotland, was huge. His achievement stands today, Murray hitting a ball over a net will be forgotten in fifty years, whilst the Caledonian Canal will still be in use.

If honours must be given, give them to people of substance.
You literally said "some semi-articulate footballer". Which one were you referring to, or were you just saying all footballers are semi-articulate?
 
extremist

What matters is the intention of actions and not the outcomes.

Of course, if you think Blair got out of bed each morning saying "I'd like to do some mass murder today" then you'd think he's an extremist.

That's not what millions of people who voted for him thought though.
 
extremist

What matters is the intention of actions and not the outcomes.

Of course, if you think Blair got out of bed each morning saying "I'd like to do some mass murder today" then you'd think he's an extremist.

That's not what millions of people who voted for him thought though.
Peter Sutcliffe was convinced he was "cleaning up the streets", so, you know
 
You literally said "some semi-articulate footballer". Which one were you referring to, or were you just saying all footballers are semi-articulate?

Well, the football correspondent of the Times, when asked if he helped a footballer with his Tweets, replied 'Oh yes, I often write Tweets for him'. I can't remember which player it was (may have been in the Eye) , but on seeing footballers interviewed, few have any great level of articulacy.

 
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Well, it is because it’s just a made up thing. But they don’t seem to want to change the rules. For some reason.

Possibly because it achieves nothing. In the case of Saville, he couldn't really be more reviled, so the 'loss' of his knighthood would hardly damage his reputation more.

I agree with you, if something has been done that would have it revoked in life, then posthumous removal should be possible. Pointless, but should be possible.

Write to your MP and suggest it.
 
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