steveseagull
Well-Known Member
Have another nine years left on mine, need to be sure not to lose it.
Are you excited by the new blue British passports (made in Poland)?
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hiraethified
You think the nuances of competitive tendering was in the minds of most Brexit supporters?
The doorstep conversations I had out canvassing in the months before brexit suggested that - in one form or the other - it was, yeah. Maybe not expressed in exactly those terms most of the time, but it was definitely in the mix. People talked about French companies running our utilities, German companies running our trains. They wanted out of that.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I think one of the things that is sometimes missing from social media very often is listening to opinions that might not be popular in some of the echo chambers that social media tends to embalm us all into. My Twiier feed nearly convinced me that the GE would be close. When I went back to England and spoke to people in the pubs it was a different world tbh.
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hiraethified
I don't recall pro-Brexit politicians demanding an immediate renationalisation of our our mainly foreign owned railways and other industries. I definitely recall things like immigration being a far, far hotter topic though, but maybe I'm remembering it all wrong.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Which is fucking comical considering who sold them to the Germans and French, far above and beyond the limits of the EU regulations.
I don't think I've said immigration wasn't one of the big drivers of the Brexit vote - of course it was. It just wasn't the only one. And one of the big drivers I encountered - something I heard on the doorstep far more than immigration - was the repatriation (not renationalisation) of things like energy and rail, and pulling out of the common market.
The Tory leadership in 2016 campaigned to remain in the EU.
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hiraethified
I get the emotion, but I'm not sure how Brexit will stop this happening. It wasn't the EU making these business decisions:
British rail is nationalised all over again – by foreign states
Overseas firms now provide half of all UK rail journeys. But could Brexit signal an end to overseas control?
Who owns Britain’s trains, energy and postal service? - Full Fact
Some providers of UK utilities like energy, post and rail have links with foreign governments
fullfact.org
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It was a huge factor for many. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t been paying attention.
Renationalisation????
ska invita
back on the other side
and then farcical on top as a Corbyn government had nationalisation under (a degree) of workers control at the centre of their manifesto
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Which of course has nothing to do with EU rules on government tenders.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't think you do get the emotion or you wouldn't try to impose this peculiar logic on itI get the emotion, but I'm not sure how Brexit will stop this happening. It wasn't the EU making these business decisions:
British rail is nationalised all over again – by foreign states
Overseas firms now provide half of all UK rail journeys. But could Brexit signal an end to overseas control?www.theguardian.com
Who owns Britain’s trains, energy and postal service? - Full Fact
Some providers of UK utilities like energy, post and rail have links with foreign governments
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Proper Tidy
Arsed
I do remember bombardier being brought up quite a few times tbf. Funnily enough the management came out for remain. In summary, it was messy.
Whether it'll stop it happening or not isn't what we're talking about is it? It's whether it was a factor in the vote to leave - which it clearly was.I get the emotion, but I'm not sure how Brexit will stop this happening. It wasn't the EU making these business decisions:
British rail is nationalised all over again – by foreign states
Overseas firms now provide half of all UK rail journeys. But could Brexit signal an end to overseas control?
Who owns Britain’s trains, energy and postal service? - Full Fact
Some providers of UK utilities like energy, post and rail have links with foreign governments
That the remain-supporting Tory government of 2015-16, pro-EU coalition government and pro-EU Labour government before them went further than EU rules dictated doesn't really have much of a bearing on this tbh. The leave vote was against all them too.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I definitely remember it being all over the vox pops.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Yeah, still a bag of cunts though.
mod
A modernist
And I guess nobody will pull this for misogyny because it's a tory you're referring to.
its got nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with the fact she’s a odious nasty shit
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Vox pops famously a reliable and impartial guide to public sentiment
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Ashcroft's post-referendum poll sample of 12k gave what must be quite a reliably representative response:
But, as with all polling, the way in which the options were framed and expressed can obviously influence outcomes etc. and there has to be the possibility of the 'shy racist' phenomena with respondents conditioned to feel that there were 'acceptable' responses and 'less acceptable' ones.
Thing is, this absolutely did turn up in the vox pops: there was a vox pops a few weeks ago that was roundly mocked everywhere where a woman, asked what she thought the advantages of brexit were, said something about 'getting our industry back.' What else could she have been talking about there?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
So do you buy the line that all leavers were just racists/xenophobes then?
If not why do you think they voted to exit?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Good to see that only 9% of Remainers bought the 'shared culture' crap. Very surprised to see the 'a vote for Remain is a vote against racism ' not scoring more highly on the Reamin side.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
No I don't. I also voted leave btw.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Suspect that 9% contained the most vocal of the remainarian fraternity, though.
Whilst offering gut reactions, I'm surprised that Ashcroft's Leave respondents put 'sovereignty' concerns 16% points ahead of 'immigration' concerns; my perception (FWIW) is that in 'the real world' those actual vocalised concerns were the other way round.
Also interesting to see the 13% concerned about the future expansion of the EU; possibly suggesting that the idea of Turkish accession really did have significant traction?
I don't think they'd necessarily be the other way round - surely 'immigration' is just already included within 'sovereignty' for many people.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Possibly so, and with all these things, so much hinges on the wording/expression of the options and how they are perceived by respondents. FWIW I remember speaking with people who's understanding of 'sovereignty' centred around the notion of retention of the monarchy and, in at least one case, a woman who told me in no uncertain terms that she intended to vote Leave specifically because she was concerned about 'sovereignty' because she wanted us to "keep our Queen".
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Yes making our own laws .
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