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Are we creeping towards being a fascist state?

I think socially this Govt are one of the worst we've ever had but in terms of fascism, New Labour took the biscuit, if they won again we would all be forced to carry ID cards, scary

That's not fascism though, Trev. That's plain old-fashioned authoritarianism, where the state can still function under its democratic or pseudo-democratic banner, but where the room for citizens to exercise their supposed democratic rights is eroded.
 
Have you ever canvassed for a political party, or been a trade union rep canvassing for new members? In both cases, society has been indoctrinated to think that people who are interested in politics, are members of political parties or unions are indulging in a abnormal behaviour. Have you seen the way union and political party members are characterised by the media?

i wouldn't say it's seen as strongly as being abnormal, but its certainly not seen as "conventional" and not necessarily something "normal people" do

i have had a few reactions while on stalls (not just for the SP btw) of people giving us dirty looks or looking at us like we are crazy

in different parts of the country though i imagine it's different.
 
society has been indoctrinated to think that people who are interested in politics, are members of political parties or unions are indulging in a abnormal behaviour. Have you seen the way union and political party members are characterised by the media?

We were outside our place of work years ago holding placards and a white van sped by and the three lads inside shouted "communists" at us. I should have realised that they'd been brainwashed.
 
i went to the BBC Picket line on my lunch break last year and a van went past and shouted "Strike, Strike, Strike", but i've been shouted at by people in vans just walking down the street, it'sjust people in vans shouting shit lol
 
it doesn't mean they were brainwashed, it probably just meant they wanted to get a reaction. either that, or they were knobs.

i dont subscribe to the whole idea that people get "brainwashed" tbh (except if they are scientologists or la rouchites or something)
 
it doesn't mean they were brainwashed, it probably just meant they wanted to get a reaction. either that, or they were knobs.

i dont subscribe to the whole idea that people get "brainwashed" tbh
Tbh, I was just going by VPs post on indoctrination.

(On a tangent, maybe there are levels of "brainwashing" - religious cults, cult of personality, NK - that kind of thing?)
 
well i think that everyone can internalise the values/beliefs they're surrounded with to some extent, even - especially?? the people who don't realise it/don't think they do -, that isn't the same as "being brainwashed" though
 
well i think that everyone can internalise the values/beliefs they're surrounded with to some extent, even - especially?? the people who don't realise it/don't think they do -, that isn't the same as "being brainwashed" though

How about being deluded, then?
 
to be honest, everyone's (self) deluded about something - its no surprise that the people with the most realistic outlook on the world are the people that are the most depressed. i don't think that's always a bad thing though - if you, for example, are on strike say, with seemingly no hope of winning and "delude" yourself into thinking there's every hope of winning, and you stick it out for that reason and end up winning, that's something that's achieved a good result

on a more (or less, depending on your pov) trivial note, the same logic works well with football
 
i wouldn't say it's not the same - clearly elements of it are (with e.g. the police squads during the miners' strike and so on). butchers etc are absolutely correct when they say that the state has always done bad stuff. however, what i would say is that over the last 30 years living standards have gradually been eroded, and in the coming years, this erosion won't be so "gradual" any more, leading to such actions, rather than being the exception during periods of unrest, will become the norm as there is more open hostility and more open class (and other) social conflict, more industrial action, more strikes, more riots (possibly) etc etc - and society will become more "unstable", necessitating this type of tougher policing to become the norm more and more often.

none of this, however, is necessarily anything like fascism
I think the above is explained because Britain is a country in decline.

I have lived in countries with really authoritarian governments, dictatorships and under military rule and from my experience Britain is a very liberal government.

If I left home now and headed out of the city I would have to pass at least 2 police check points, on entering any large town or city I would also have to pass through more police check points.

By law I have to carry an ID card and fortunately for me I have never been asked to show it, but I have been asked for my vehicle documents and license while driving.

I also have what is called a CPF (a personal tax number), this can be used by government departments to track my spending and if I don't pay my bills this number can be suspended by the government making it impossible to live any kind of normal life, without a "live" CPF you have no access to health care, education, employment, you can't get a telephone, electricity, rent or buy property, own or drive a car, you can't even buy electrical goods.

As well as the CPF, if I get fines for driving and don't pay them, my drivers license will be suspended and as this has to be renewed every 5 years, I have to pay my fines in order to renew it. If I am stopped at a police check point and don't have ALL the correct documents, they will impound my vehicle.

By the way I live in what is considered a liberal democracy nowadays :)

I think the people of the UK are right to ask why are we on cctv all the time and who is tracking their phone or GPS, who has access to the date from personalized travel cards and all that stuff, but to claim the UK is even close to being authoritarian is way off the mark in my view.

I'm sure I could find far more information about most British people just by searching the internet than I would get from police files.
 
i wouldn't say britain is "really liberal" but i also think the definition of "really liberal" has changed.
 
The contemporary state is more reactionary, along with the ruling class political culture (utterly rancid).
 
Fascism is way off, but the role of the state is more one-sided, the rolling back of its social democratic functions attesting that fact.
 
Fascism is way off, but the role of the state is more one-sided, the rolling back of its social democratic functions attesting that fact.
More one sided than what? More reactionary than what? The social democratic state was based on intervention in the economy. What is the modern state if now reactionary? What characterisises it?
 
Isn't it more that the state has more resources and the technology to interfere and monitor to a greater extent? I realise there's some sort of crossover between the material capacity and the scale of the state with what it attempts to do, but not too convinced that the authoritarian tendencies have changed that greatly - you look at times when the gloves have come off over the past century, as in the north of Ireland, and see both authoritarianism and what liberal limits still hold.
 
More one sided than what? More reactionary than what? The social democratic state was based on intervention in the economy. What is the modern state if now reactionary? What characterisises it?

On the contrary, the modern state was a giant progress, in all ways. It abolished pre-modern thought and instituted reason in its place. In principle modern subjects participate equally in social life. As we know, that is not and never was reality, but it at least opened the way for the otherwise subjugated and excluded to press their influence. In late capitalism the tendency of the role of the state is more and more narrowly the reproduction of capitalism. The capitalist state is decadent. Abandonment of intervention is one symptom.
 
On the contrary to what? I've asked you some questions about your posts - there's nothing to be on the contrary to. You've yet to answer a single one.
 
I thought I answered:
"What is the modern state if no[t] reactionary?"
Assuming you meant it always was.
 
Many modern states, including the UK, are among the least reactionary states there have ever been.

Dunno what your point is really.

Not sure what you mean by 'abandonment of intervention'. What do you mean? We don't live in a 19th-century style laissez faire state.

I'm quite depressed by the way Britain's going at the moment, and every good thing they try to get rid of we should fight for and get angry about, but it is still a state that spends over 40% GDP on the public sector. That's not quite abandonment of intervention.
 
Many modern states, including the UK, are among the least reactionary states there have ever been.

Dunno what your point is really.

Not sure what you mean by 'abandonment of intervention'. What do you mean? . . . it is still a state that spends over 40% GDP on the public sector. That's not quite abandonment of intervention.

No, not quite. What it does is abandon a positive role. That's what neo-liberalisation means w/r the state. The ideological content of 'Thatcherism' (or 'Reaganism') is the renouncing of government's responsibilities, even if state spending has increased all of this time. Neo-liberalism simply favors the narrower and repressive functions.

When it goes wrong they fill the gaps, all this vindictive crap following the riots including a large dose of racism, simplistic moralism, and even religion. Any old garbage. Deformations of the political culture accompany ones of the system. It's not that surprising the OP asks the question he does.

(The current one make it very clear what direction it is steering: "you want education but can't afford it / you were raped but can't afford a decent lawyer / you need adequate healthcare but can't afford any. etc. not interested".)
 
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