Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine

[Poi E]

A good start for the People's Republic of Donetsk. Just recently Pravda was boasting of the ability of Russian separatist forces to down Ukrainian fighters. A wonder airlines didn't avoid the airspace over Ukraine.

 

[1%er]

I saw an interview with him not so long ago. He said that he recognised it as a civilian type but that civilian aircraft could be used for military purposes. Furthermore that he didn't tell his controllers that it was a Boeing.

The USA also have form for this, Iran Air Flight 655

"According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter"

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

RIP passengers and crew. Its so sad.

So senseless.

 

[a_chap]

1. Reuters
   tweets: #BREAKING: Number of dead from crash of #MH17 more than 300, includes 23 U.S. citizen: Interior Ministry adviser, quoted by Interfax

That, if true, will really put the cat amongst the pigeons...

 

[mauvais]

The USA also have form for this, Iran Air Flight 655

"According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter"

On the plus side, it gave us this:

 

[1%er]

They have the black boxes so we'll know more soon

 

[Pickman's model]

They have the black boxes so we'll know more soon

i wouldn't be so sure about that, everyone thought it would be quite straightforward to start off with last time.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Interesting, highly unconfirmed I might add.

 

[a_chap]

The last few minutes for the passengers as they fell out of the sky from 10,000 meters would have been terrifying.

They wouldn't have known anything about it.

Suddenly going from near sea-level air pressure to air pressure/temperatrure at 30,000+ feet altitude and doing so at 600+ mph would render you insensible (if not actually dead) almost instantly.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Not sure the black box will confirm anything tbh.

Eta: if it was hit by a missile.

 

[Spymaster]

Suddenly going from near sea-level air pressure to air pressure/temperatrure at 30,000+ feet altitude and doing so at 600+ mph would render you insensible (if not actually dead) almost instantly.

That assumes that there was a catastrophic decompression. If it was a missile, and took out an engine or blew off a wing without penetrating the cabin, they could have been fully conscious in the pressurised section all, much, or part, of the way down until the cabin broke up.

 

[1%er]

Not sure the black box will confirm anything tbh.

It is unlikely it will supply no information at all, even the ones lost at sea for years on the air France flight from Brazil yielded some information.

 

[kebabking]

there is - or was - a NATO AWACS air surveilence operation out of Poland and Romania, its possible they might have skin paints and SIGINT from the radar systems, but they aren't flying in Ukraine airspace, so its a very long way from them to the location of the shootdown, maybe 500 or 600 miles... probably not a runner.

 

[weltweit]

So Obama's first priority is to find out how many Americans were on board.

They always do that, we always do that, does it matter? something like 300 people died is that not enough?

 

[laptop]

So Obama's first priority is to find out how many Americans were on board.

They always do that, we always do that, does it matter? something like 300 people died is that not enough?

Any party that fails to toe the line that only Merkins count makes itself unelectable. Sad but true.

 

[a_chap]

That assumes that there was a catastrophic decompression. If it was a missile, and took out an engine or blew off a wing without penetrating the cabin, they would have been fully conscious in the pressurised section all, much, or part, of the way down until the cabin broke up.

The condition of the bodies of the passengers/crew will show which of those two scenarios happened.

Clothed: gentle, but terrifying, ride to meet their maker

Unclothed: dumped into the jet stream and instant oblivion

I know which I'd prefer.

 

[Poi E]

So Obama's first priority is to find out how many Americans were on board.

They always do that, we always do that, does it matter? something like 300 people died is that not enough?

Of course it's his priority. He's the head of state of the USA. He's not some sort of cuddly internationalist humanitarian.

 

[StoneRoad]

First off, I express my condolences to the families and friends of the crew and passengers of MAS17. A truly shocking incident, and not an accident, so someone must be to blame.

The reported size of the debris field and bodies (RIP) seems to me to indicate breaking up in mid-air. Fire will have been partially fuelled by the avgas present as they had not been in the air for all that long.

 

[Spymaster]

toe the line

 

[1%er]

i wouldn't be so sure about that, everyone thought it would be quite straightforward to start off with last time.

You may be correct. It was reported here that the black boxes had been recovered, it is now being reported that the black boxes have been recovered by the separatists, they are calming.

 

[Fingers]

BBC have just shown footage of the crash... ie the thing going down

 

[2hats]

there is - or was - a NATO AWACS air surveilence operation out of Poland and Romania, its possible they might have skin paints and SIGINT from the radar systems, but they aren't flying in Ukraine airspace, so its a very long way from them to the location of the shootdown, maybe 500 or 600 miles... probably not a runner.

Pretty much at the limit of AWACS coverage if not beyond (assuming they were even close to the border at the time). There will be plenty of SIGINT/ELINT traffic.

 

[joustmaster]

The condition of the bodies of the passengers/crew will show which of those two scenarios happened.

Clothed: gentle, but terrifying, ride to meet their maker

Unclothed: dumped into the jet stream and instant oblivion

I know which I'd prefer.

From the photos I have seen, the bodies are clothed, and some are missing limbs and have impact damage.
I was expecting more destruction.

Not sure which would be sadder to look at. Either way its not pleasent.

 

[Barking_Mad]

You go through massive security procedures before boarding a plane and then they fly you over a war zone at a height reachable by missiles.

Absurd.

 

[2hats]

They wouldn't have known anything about it.

Suddenly going from near sea-level air pressure to air pressure/temperatrure at 30,000+ feet altitude and doing so at 600+ mph would render you insensible (if not actually dead) almost instantly.

Time of useful conciousness post explosive decompression would be around 10, up to 30 seconds at the altitude concerned (shorter for the elderly/less fit). Those who were concious at the moment of the event would most likely have been aware of it (for a few seconds).

 

[1%er]

If this footage is genuine it looks like a very compact crash site

 

[Barking_Mad]

UK flights had not been flying over this airspace for some time.

 

[dylanredefined]

The separatists had missile systems capable of doing this. Not really capable of distinguishing between targets though.

 

[weltweit]

The separatists had missile systems capable of doing this. Not really capable of distinguishing between targets though.

If they had, and possibly they do have, there is only one place they could have got them!

 

[laptop]

On-the-face-of-it laughable claim from Russia Today:

Putin's plane overlapped MH17 flight route less than hour before - report

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/