Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine

[dylanredefined]

If they had, and possibly they do have, there is only one place they could have got them!

Either acquired off the Russians or the Ukrainians. Possible whole crews defected with their system. Or they acquired a system and then found some people who could operate it. Remember they have conscription so might be able to scrounge up a team who remember how to fire the missile ,but, without the sophiscated command and control network you end up shooting at anything that flies.

operator console BUK-1 telar

 

[1%er]

The separatists had missile systems capable of doing this. Not really capable of distinguishing between targets though.

Its all very confusing, "experts" on TV here are claiming "it would have to have been a guided missile to hit an airliner flying at 10,000M (33,000 feet) fired from the ground"

 

[2hats]

UK flights had not been flying over this airspace for some time.

Virgin and BA (and Singapore, Thai, Lufthansa, etc) were routing through Ukraine airspace earlier today.

 

[editor]

So, nine Brits onboard too.

This is so awful.

 

[Poi E]

Virgin and BA (and Singapore, Thai, Lufthansa, etc) were routing through Ukraine airspace earlier today.

That sounds pretty irresponsible given recent air warfare in the area. Who decides these paths? Airlines themselves? Fuck, even my company discriminates as to where to send employees.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Virgin and BA (and Singapore, Thai, Lufthansa, etc) were routing through Ukraine airspace earlier today.

BA were claiming that their only flight through Ukrainian airspace is their daily to Kiev.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

So Obama's first priority is to find out how many Americans were on board.

They always do that, we always do that, does it matter? something like 300 people died is that not enough?

He knows who signs his paycheck. He wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't

(Now, if you want to complain that a non-US based news service cares more about Americans than anyone else, then I'm with you. )

 

[weltweit]

So, the Russians have this Russian BUK missile system capable of shooting down a plane at 33,000 feet, the Ukranians also have it (got from Russia when they were more friendly), and the separatists could have captured one or some from the Ukranians, or perhaps could have been given them by the Russians. It doesn't narrow down who might have done this any.

 

[dylanredefined]

Its all very confusing, "experts" on TV here are claiming "it would have to have been a guided missile to hit an airliner flying at 10,000M (33,000 feet) fired from the ground"

The missile had an altitude of 15km and a range of 30km. With something like that in the hands of rebels an easy mistake to make as they can only see something is flying.
Not what it is.

 

[a_chap]

Time of useful conciousness post explosive decompression would be around 10, up to 30 seconds at the altitude concerned (shorter for the elderly/less fit). Those who were concious at the moment of the event would most likely have been aware of it (for a few seconds).

If it was "simply" explosive decompresion then, yes, I agree. But it's explosive decompression into a 600mph wind. Via an initial explosion...

 

[Poi E]

So wonder what the air crash investigation abilities of the Donetsk Republic are like?

 

[weltweit]

He knows who signs his paycheck. He wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't

(Now, if you want to complain that a non-US based news service cares more about Americans than anyone else, then I'm with you. )

I am only teasing really. There was a sketch way back on British TV highlighting how British news only cared about disasters where Britons were involved or killed, foreigners didn't matter and this focus of Obama's on Americans and Cameron on British just reminded me of it.

I think, around 300 people lost their lives, all had families and friends, that is awful enough for me!

 

[2hats]

If it was "simply" explosive decompresion then, yes, I agree. But it's explosive decompression into a 600mph wind. Via an initial explosion...

The images of the impact site suggest the plane retained a degree of structural integrity down to low altitude/ground level and some passengers weren't exposed to a very high velocity air stream. I'm afraid several people will have been aware for several seconds at least.

 

[1%er]

The missile had an altitude of 15km and a range of 30km. With something like that in the hands of rebels an easy mistake to make as they can only see something is flying.
Not what it is.

What make of missile are you talking about?

 

[kebabking]

So, the Russians have this Russian BUK missile system capable of shooting down a plane at 33,000 feet, the Ukranians also have it (got from Russia when they were more friendly), and the separatists could have captured one or some from the Ukranians, or perhaps could have been given them by the Russians. It doesn't narrow down who might have done this any.

well, the local Russian bloke claiming on his twitter feed that he'd just shot down a high-flying AN-24 transport plane, and then putting up pictures of the crashsaying 'ha ha, we told to stay away' might be something of a teeny, tiny clue...

 

[Fingers]

So at 30k feet, if the plane was blown up there would not be a great deal of oxygen to ignite the fuel. If it blew up at that level it would have been blasted over a massive area like Pan Am 103. Pan Am 103 was blown up from the inside by a bomb though.

It looks to me that it was severely crippled and took a fast steep dive, hence the small debris field (from what we can gather from photos etc ) suggesting it might have been largely in one piece when it hit the ground.

Black box should be able to solve that scenario.

 

[weltweit]

well, the local Russian bloke claiming on his twitter feed that he'd just shot down a high-flying AN-24 transport plane, and then putting up pictures of the crashsaying 'ha ha, we told to stay away' might be something of a teeny, tiny clue...

Yes, hopefully the authorites (whichever ones) will have a copy of that tweet !!

 

[a_chap]

The images of the impact site suggest the plane retained a degree of structural integrity down to low altitude/ground level and some passengers weren't exposed to a very high velocity air stream. I'm afraid several people will have been aware for several seconds at least.

2Hats I resepct your superior knowledge on the subject.

I just hope you're wrong this time...

 

[kebabking]

So wonder what the air crash investigation abilities of the Donetsk Republic are like?

 

[Lazy Llama]

The footage of the explosion and fireball on the ground does indicate that the plane was to some degree structurally intact when it hit the ground.

 

[dylanredefined]

What make of missile are you talking about?

Buk missle system nato reporting name gainful. Various versions available.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Ex pilot on BBC looked at previous mh17 flights over last 2 weeks and noted this flight was some 300 miles north than some others.

 

[1%er]

Buk missle system nato reporting name gainful. Various versions available.

I missed your post 151.

So the separatists have Gainful missiles?

 

[dylanredefined]

I missed your post 151.

So the separatists have Gainful missiles?

tweeted about them earlier which they have removed ,but, of course have be retweeted. Rumours that the crews that defected with them were kiev
double agents who were just waiting to shoot down an airliner abound ,but, probably just hopeful rumours. My guess the crew just messed up and are running for their lives or dead in a ditch somewhere.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Nothing much but a plume of smoke from this video but the translated comments are interesting

I was looking at it and they shot down the plane, look it’s falling, down, it fell. Look over there, behind there [jumbled.] We went outside, pieces are still falling. Something boomed, it's still falling. There’s a lot of black smoke behind it. Look at it look at it. Come outside, look. It's all red, all the black smoke going up. We were just looking how the plane was falling, we were shocked. They must have shot it down, they must have hit it, they hit it. Nobody could be alive."

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/...rashes-in-ukraine-near-russian-border/374616/

 

[likesfish]

Ukrainians have lomg range sams systems and are trigger happy they shot a completely innocent airliner ten years agos by accident.
Whatever fuckwit thought flying over russia ukraine was a good idea needs shooting .
If you have a big enough sam killing an airliner isnt difficult its not jinking
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K12_Kub

Its an old missile but its perfectly capable of killing an airliner

 

[Lazy Llama]

This is the fireball footage I saw on C4 News earlier:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...sia-airlines-impact-ukraine-article-1.1870705

 

[dylanredefined]

I missed your post 151.

So the separatists have Gainful missiles?

Launcher seen within 20km of crash site so probably responsible for shooting down.

 

[1%er]

Launcher seen within 20km of crash site so probably responsible for shooting down.

I'd be surprised if an airliner traveling at around 550 mph and at 33,0000 feet hit the ground only 20 km from where it was struck by a missile.

(I'd try and do the maths if I hadn't drunk so much )

 

[2hats]

Supposedly intercepts of calls between local separatists and Russian Military:



PS CNN reporting that the US government has concluded the aircraft was shot down based on data they have that the flight was tracked by a SAM radar and IR indications of an ensuing explosion.