Another Lib Dem anti-Semite

[Belushi]

I think it's not helped by illuminati type shit either which is far more mainstream and like widely seen by people than most posters on here realise. The other day I met somebody on the train going back who started ranting at me about what david icke had said and i've had a mate talk to me about how she was reading stuff about the illuminati.

I've never encountered a conspiracy theory that didn't end up blaming the Jews in the end.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've never encountered a conspiracy theory that didn't end up blaming the Jews in the end.

that's because all conspiracy theories are a means to an end

 

[Belushi]

I've never encountered a conspiracy theory that didn't end up blaming the Jews in the end.

Sorry did I say Jews? I meant Rothschild-Zionists of course

 

[elbows]

You might want to read some of that stuff. That particular conspiracy fiction could very well be used as a test to determine who the sane, humorous, loving, decent, intelligent people are. The ones who can spot satire, enjoy a joke and explore interesting themes without turning them into sick dogma or becoming paranoid, hate-filled, dangerous, shambolic fuckwits. I dont know much about Shea but Robert Anton Wilson had a lively mind and was rather good at taking the piss. Apparently some of the wackiest theories in the trilogy come from unpublished letters to Playboy magazine

 

[Garek]

Searching on Twitter shows that David Icke is in support of Ward. I know we can't always help which people declare their support for us but I'd be a bit worried if someone like Icke was defending me!

 

[elbows]

I also credit the three Cosmic Trigger books by Robert Anton Wilson with standing me in good stead for all the drool I would later be exposed to on the internet. I learnt plenty about the intersection between drugs, new age belief, counterculture and co-incidences. However much like the fictional books by him & Shea, I suspect that what you get out of it is highly influenced by the reader. i.e. that its just as likely that idiotic beliefs will be reinforced by reading such books as it is that, as in my case, it will help with the great unravelling of phoney awakenings, snake oil salesmen, the paranoid and the damned.

 

[DotCommunist]

Its actually a fantastic trilogy- nutty as squirrel shit, funny as fuck and soaked in hippy acid counterculture

 

[DotCommunist]

I left my copy round Tufty's flat ages ago. So worth the time- brilliant piss take of Atlas Shrugged buried in there called 'Telemachus Sneezed'

hard to say how much the authors believed their own lines

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Opinions vary as to how good it is as a work of literature, shall we say.

 

[elbows]

I'm not sure I'd want to rate it in literary terms, but if I was setting up a Sunday School for Discordianism I would probably put it on the reading list

 

[elbows]

I find the Law of Fives to be more and more manifest the harder I look.

 

[Garek]

I find the Law of Fives to be more and more manifest the harder I look.

What's a niche public school sport got to do with all this?

 

[DotCommunist]

Opinions vary as to how good it is as a work of literature, shall we say.

best read when you are 20 and really into pot and Dark Side of The Moon

ime

 

[elbows]

Consult your pineal gland.

 

[DotCommunist]

I've never encountered a conspiracy theory that didn't end up blaming the Jews in the end.

except the ones that are true like CIA involvment in the importation of drugs and the whole contra supporting thing.


And the one about how JP 1 was murdered


less conspiracy theories those more, look at all this evidence!

Proff Griff from Public Enemy (that ever reliable source) is convinced the drug influx aided by the cia was a direct attack on black militant communities

He never did recant his anti-semetic remarks though, just said he was quoted out of context.....

 

[DotCommunist]

I And finally, not a few of them have even started treading the path towards denying the holocaust - it starts with "I'm just questioning the numbers", moving on to "no mass burial pits or gas chambers have ever been found"

on this- leaving aside the mass of cross corroborating oral evidence from both sides- leaving aside the mass of ariel photography showing full trains going in and empty one leaving- ignoring all that for a moment. There have been tests done on the walls of the chambers which prove conclusively that the gas was used and not in any delousing or cleaning procedure. You categorically do not get the compounds built up on those stones unless you've used the gas regularly and in lethal to humans concentrations. Its a massive fucking facepalm to hear the apologetics from those who want to deny this happened. Christ I wish it was born from an innocent desire to not believe humans capable of doing that to humans but we know it isn't.

oh and don't be chary of chipping into politics discussions here. I'm thick as pigshit nd that doesn't stop me- your post shows that you've got a decent grasp of things, chip in regardless. Every fucker else does!

 

[butchersapron]

And off he goes.

 

[frogwoman]

An off he goes.

That's another one for why the guardian are shit thread. It implies that it's because of his views about Israel rather than "the jews".

 

[butchersapron]

Of course, it's the lib-dems so it's covered in fakery:

His suspension, which is due to last eight weeks, is largely symbolic as it comes the day before parliament rises for its summer recess.

 

[frogwoman]

Ugh.

 

[Corax]

I've never encountered a conspiracy theory that didn't end up blaming the Jews in the end.

Most that are (rightly) labelled as CT maybe. But there are a fair few that are pedalled by the US and UK that have Islam (amongst others) on the end of the rope instead. Difference being that the credibility lent to them by officialdom tends to see them excused from the CT label. It's unfortunate that the likes of Jones and Icke give them further credibility by responding with counterclaims of their own that are (as you say) almost always riddled with antisemitism - whether overt or coded.

Not sure how well I've communicated that tbh. Brain melting in the heat, and a pretty substandard organ at the best of times...

 

[Garek]

David Ward MP House of Commons LONDON SW1A 0AA

17th July, 2013

Thank you for coming to see Nick, Simon and me this afternoon.

You will recall that we discussed the report of your two meetings with the group convened by Simon, which included Jewish colleagues. As Nick indicated to you, that report was a largely positive one. In particular we were all pleased to note that you appreciated the need to use language in this debate that was proportionate and precise.

It was therefore with immense disappointment that we were presented with your public comment made on 13th July on Twitter in the following terms:

“Am I wrong or are am I right? At long last the #Zionists are losing the battle – how long can the #apartheid State of #Israel last?”

We were in unanimous agreement that questioning the continued existence of the State of Israel fails the test of language that is “proportionate and precise”.

We want to be clear with you that in this process we are not concerned about your views and opinions on the policies of present or previous Israeli governments, nor the situation in the Israeli-occupied territories, nor the strength of feeling with which your views are held. As we have sought to impress upon you repeatedly, we are having to decide on whether language you chose to use in January and February, and now this month, is language which brings the party into disrepute or harms the interests of the Party.

During the meeting, we put it to you that your most recent statement – which specifically questions the continuing existence of the State of Israel – is neither proportionate nor precise. Unfortunately, we considered your explanation to be unconvincing and it did not satisfy us that you understood the importance of conducting the debate on this issue at all times and in all places in terms that are proportionate and precise.

We wish to reiterate that this is not about telling you what your views should be. Indeed, we have all visited the occupied territories and we have all experienced an instinctive and liberal reaction to the humanitarian suffering we have witnessed. You will know that Nick, Simon and I have a consistent track record of being outspoken about illegal settlement activities of Israeli governments and the threat this poses to the two-state solution for which the party has long argued.

It is also immensely frustrating for us to find ourselves constantly responding to questions about disproportionate and imprecise language from you. These interventions cause considerable offence rather than addressing questions of political substance about the plight of the Palestinian people and the right of Israel’s citizens to live a life free of violence. It is extraordinarily difficult to gain traction in that debate at an effective political level if the expression of our concerns is undermined by the way your language misrepresents the view of our party.

Whilst we understand you have your own views about this process, which has been long and complicated, we also hope you recognise that we have given you every opportunity to reconcile the expression of your views with the party’s policy on a two-state solution. Unfortunately, you have not been able to do that.

Therefore, it is with regret that I have to inform you that we have decided to suspend the Liberal Democrat whip from you. This period of suspension will be with immediate effect until 13th September inclusive. I very much regret that it has been necessary to take this action.

Yours ever,

Alistair Carmichael

 

[Garek]

So just a language issue then

 

[Corax]

Wanker though I expect those better informed than I will be able to tell me he is, that's a decent smackdown letter from Carmichael...

 

[Garek]

Wanker though I expect those better informed than I will be able to tell me he is, that's a decent smackdown letter from Carmichael...

It's a letter that is entirely missing the point. And that is being generous. You could say it is a letter that deliberately obfuscates it.

 

[Santino]

"we have all experienced an
instinctive and liberal reaction"

Why does this phrase in particular make me want to stamp on someone's neck?

 

[frogwoman]

Most that are (rightly) labelled as CT maybe. But there are a fair few that are pedalled by the US and UK that have Islam (amongst others) on the end of the rope instead. Difference being that the credibility lent to them by officialdom tends to see them excused from the CT label. It's unfortunate that the likes of Jones and Icke give them further credibility by responding with counterclaims of their own that are (as you say) almost always riddled with antisemitism - whether overt or coded.

Not sure how well I've communicated that tbh. Brain melting in the heat, and a pretty substandard organ at the best of times...

The Eurabia conspiracies promoted by the likes of Bat Ye'Or et al are a fairly recent thing and some of them do have anti-semitism involved. "Liberal" anti-zionist Jews from New York advocating tolerance for the muslims. Left-wing Jews ultimately using the far-left and Islam to promote a liberal agenda, and oppose Israel ( ). Even if there isn't any anti-semitism involved (and there often isn't) the islamophobia and bigotry based on their paranoia about "Eurabia", Saudi Arabia controlling the UK's immigration policies and the Council of Islamic Relations or whatever it is is still pretty fucking rancid.

"There's no anti-semitism involved in anti-muslims conspiracy theories" isn't really much of a defence tbh especially because one of the people who subscribed to those theories was Anders Breivik. They have blood on their hands too.

 

[frogwoman]

Oh and as much of the rhetoric/actions around terrorism and Islam by US and UK governments sucks I haven't seen much evidence of Eurabia conspiracy theories being peddled by them, overtly or otherwise.

In fact both governments would be at pains to point out how the anti-terror laws despite the brunt of them affecting muslims disproportionately would have nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Corax]

"There's no anti-semitism involved in anti-muslims conspiracy theories" isn't really much of a defence tbh

Not defending anything froggy.

 

[Corax]

It's a letter that is entirely missing the point. And that is being generous. You could say it is a letter that deliberately obfuscates it.

Sure. I still think it'll make him feel tiny though.