And next, Syria?

[zahir]

the alternative at the time was looking to be a socialist/anarchist collective to self governance. But all that has gone now, all or most of the people in Syria who were putting forward those ideas are dead

This sounds too pessimistic to me. I'd say a wave of organising is inevitable with the dictatorship gone and millions of exiles making their plans to return. Activism of one kind or another is going to happen outside and sometimes in opposition to the new regime.

 

[teqniq]

Why wouldn't they?



When before, has the opportunity presented itself, for Israel to wipe out Syria's military capability, with such limited consequences?

* yawn * I see you are completely failing to mention the US involvement in all of this which is actually key. The scale of the strikes would not have been possible without US involvement. They are very much a major guilty party in what has happened militarily. Meanwhile they will also happily continue to steal the oil. I do not envy the Syrian people right now. Rebuilding their country after years of tyranny is going to be no mean feat.

 

[teqniq]

This sounds too pessimistic to me. I'd say a wave of organising is inevitable with the dictatorship gone and millions of exiles making their plans to return.

I would hope that you are right

 

[Spymaster]

* yawn * I see you are completely failing to mention the US involvement in all of this which is actually key. The scale of the strikes would not have been possible without US involvement. They are very much a major guilty party in what has happened militarily.

Why not just answer the questions?

Why would Israel (with US assistance, if it pleases you) not take out the former Syrian military assets before they come under the control of a load of Islamists with an unknown agenda?

You previously asked why they haven't done this "when the opportunity presented itself before", so tell us when that was.

When did the opportunity last present itself, for Israel (with US assistance) to destroy the entirety of Syria's military assets, without starting WW3?

 

[zahir]

Reports of a ceasefire.

Syria: the military leader of the SDF reports that the Americans have been able to negotiate a ceasefire in eastern Aleppo province.

The SDF will fully withdraw from the areas around Manbij and west of the Euphrates, in return the SNA will stop attacking Kobane.

with google translate:

While our fighters in Manbij continue to resist to stop the expansion of attacks from the west of the Euphrates, we have reached a ceasefire agreement in Manbij with US mediation, to preserve the security and safety of civilians.
The fighters of the Manbij Military Council, who have been resisting the attacks since November 27, will be withdrawn from the area as soon as possible.
Our goal is to achieve a ceasefire throughout Syria and enter into a political process for the future of the country.

 

[zahir]

video

“I sat down and started to tell him — 'There was this bird —,' He interrupted me. ‘What is a bird?”

Watch this short video interview — about a child discovered in a notorious Syrian prison — from beginning to end.

 

[Gramsci]

I think that's a given seeing as governing classes don't give a toss about the inhabitants of their own jurisdictions.

In Israel case it's Palestinians in particular.

 

[Gramsci]

Banks, shops reopen in Damascus as Syria reels from Israeli bombings

HTS leader Ahmed al-Sharaa says Syria is ready to rebuild after years of war, as Israel launches 480 raids in 48 hours.

www.aljazeera.com

More extensive attacks than I thought.

Israel just doesn't care.

Harlan Ullman, a senior adviser at the Atlantic Council said( posted on Al Jazeera live blog)

The bombings, however, could be very destabilising for Syria.

“This is the problem that we face, one country’s security is the other country’s absolute insecurity,” Ullman said.

Just wondering do these 480 bombing raids count as self defence ? Under international law.

As it appears to me so far Israel hasn't even tried to give legal basis for this extensive bombing across the Syria by another state- Israel

 

[Gramsci]

More here.

Israel says to impose ‘sterile’ zone in south Syria, launches 480 air raids

Wave of air attacks hit military sites across Syria over the past 48 hours, Israeli military says.

www.aljazeera.com

Israel media, quoting a senior security source, described the attacks as the largest air operation carried out by its air force in its history.

A spokesperson for United Nations chief Antonio Guterres said the world body was ” against these types of attacks”.

“I think this is a turning point for Syria. It should not be used by its neighbours to encroach on the territory of Syria,” Stephane Dujarric told reporters.

 

[mojo pixy]

Can we maybe be angry about Turkey for a while too, not just Israel?

 

[_Russ_]

Can we maybe be angry about Turkey for a while too, not just Israel?

Fill your boots

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm angry about neither, I'm simply hoping the people I know in Syria that I'm not directly in touch with atm, are OK and stay OK.

I'm surprised that Israel bombing chemical weapons stockpiles and free-for-all jet fighters is getting more criticism than Turkey bombing kurds to stop them organising a country of their own next month.

Or maybe I'm not surprised tbh.

 

[krtek a houby]

Can we maybe be angry about Turkey for a while too, not just Israel?

Any nation attacking Syria right now are weapon grade status.

 

[Gramsci]

I was going to put this on the Gaza thread.

Looking at this thread on and off saw Israel has come up here.

So posted it on this thread.

I had actually held off from posting on Israel here. As I guessed what the reaction would be.

Not surprised the whataboutery argument has come up.

Israel has launched in its own words the largest air operation in its history at Syria.

So in light of that think its fair enough to comment on it.

Also may be using at least some weaponry supplied through this country.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's not a 'what about' argument ffs, there's loads going on in Syria right now.

 

[cloudyday]

I'm angry about neither, I'm simply hoping the people I know in Syria that I'm not directly in touch with atm, are OK and stay OK.

I'm surprised that Israel bombing chemical weapons stockpiles and free-for-all jet fighters is getting more criticism than Turkey bombing kurds to stop them organising a country of their own next month.

Or maybe I'm not surprised tbh.

I’m not surprised that you are not surprised.

What are your thoughts on Syria taking back the Golan Heights (if such a scenario was to present itself)?

 

[mojo pixy]

I’m not surprised that you are not surprised.

What are your thoughts on Syria taking back the Golan Heights (if such a scenario was to present itself)?

Let's talk about that when and if it happens.

 

[cloudyday]

Lol

 

[tim]

Tough shit. There's no power vacuum in Israel for them to have to mitigate. If there was, and they were able to, they'd be criminally negligent not to.

Israel is doing precisely what they should be doing.

Like the Turks they are doing whatever they want to do. There is nothing new in that. However; the Russians and Iranians are now less able to do whatever they want to do.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why not just answer the questions?

Why would Israel (with US assistance, if it pleases you) not take out the former Syrian military assets before they come under the control of a load of Islamists with an unknown agenda?

You previously asked why they haven't done this "when the opportunity presented itself before", so tell us when that was.

When did the opportunity last present itself, for Israel (with US assistance) to destroy the entirety of Syria's military assets, without starting WW3?

You love banging a drum

 

[brogdale]

It's not a 'what about' argument ffs, there's loads going on in Syria right now.

tbf, your post #10090 was complete whataboutery:

Can we maybe be angry about Turkey for a while too, not just Israel?

which you followed, in #10092, somewhat inexplicably, by saying:

I'm angry about neither...

Also this is a very long thread and you'd had 336 previous pages to articulate your concern about Turkish intervention in Syria. So maybe, instead of once again implying that criticism of the Israeli state's interventions on sovereign Syrian territory is somehow anti-semetic, it might be more convincing if you did express your concerns about the Turkish action.

 

[zahir]

I've already seen reports of this being an issue in Afrin with Kurds who had been displaced returning to find homes occupied by Arabs who have also been displaced from other parts of Syria.

Razan Saffour

I wonder how the management of those returning will/is happening. Are people finding their homes? Are their homes empty or lived? Are their homes destroyed or in tact? Did the mercenaries also flee? Are people’s homes still occupied by them? What happens in that case?

If internally displaced people are living in the homes of those who were externally displaced, who has a right to the home upon the return of the latter? Are people claiming back their land - what if structures had been built on it since they were away?

Who resolves the disputes? What about those returning to nothing - where are they staying or sheltering in the meantime? What regulation processes are being put in place? How can the diaspora, esp those wealthy with capacity to spend, assist in any of this?

 

[Spymaster]

However; the Russians and Iranians are now less able to do whatever they want to do.

What a shame.

 

[CNT36]

There is criticism about both Turkey and Israel. If it wasn't for two or three posters having a bun fight there would be a lot less about Israel. The Turkish/Kurdish situation has been going a long time and discussed on this and other threads including at least one started for the purpose. Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria

The Israeli bombing and the "buffer zone" is a major increase in Israeli involvement in Syria and seems to go past destroying chemical weapons if not in intent then in consequence.

 

[zahir]

I'd add to this the issue of Syrian Kurds displaced from areas bordering Turkey where the fighting is ongoing.

thread

It is incredulous that within just days of the Assad regime's fall, a number of European countries, including Germany, Austria, Denmark, and others have announced pauses in the processing of asylum applications.

There are so many things European countries could have prioritized following an Assad regime fall, be it a surge of humanitarian and civil society aid, support for a peaceful political process, or technical support for those liberating prisons or exhuming mass graves.

Instead, these countries have opted to articulate a policy priority that leaves already vulnerable asylum seekers in limbo, creates undue pressure on them to potentially return involuntarily, and may usher in problematic migration practices in violation of international law.

By announcing asylum pauses with little clarity for those most impacted on what's next and what their status will be, European countries create pressure on refugees to consider returns that are not safe, not dignified, and not voluntary in violation of international law.

Furthermore, for all asylum applications from a single country to be paused en masse violates the principle that asylum decisions must be made based on an individualized, case-by-case decision informed by personal circumstance.

While some Syrians may be able to return to a post-Assad Syria immediately, others may only be able to do so with time, and others still may never be able to return. While Assad was a key perpetrator, he was certainly not the only driver of asylees.

A post-Assad asylum pause ignores asylum seekers who are fleeing other drivers of asylum, including but not solely HTS, which has gotten more influential in recent days. It also erases those who seek asylum on other bases including religious practice and sexual orientation.

An asylum pause ignores the fact that though Assad has fallen, violence continues in parts of Syria, rendering it unsafe. This year, the European Crt of Justice ruled against countries trying to designate only part of a third country as "safe" and returning refugees there.

Ultimately, these European asylum pauses are premature, inappropriate given the in-flux nature of development inside the country, erase the harms experienced by Syrians of different positionalities, and stem from a problematic, racist impetus to halt the entry of newcomers.

 

[mojo pixy]

tbf, your post #10090 was complete whataboutery:

Yeah OK, I think post after post focusing primarily on Israeli actions is more akin to whataboutery but whatever.

which you followed, in #10092, somewhat inexplicably, by saying:

I was replying to Russ, for my sins. That's the explication.

Also this is a very long thread and you'd had 336 previous pages to articulate your concern about Turkish intervention in Syria. So maybe, instead of once again implying that criticism of the Israeli state's interventions on sovereign Syrian territory is somehow anti-semetic, it might be more convincing if you did express your concerns about the Turkish action.

In itself criticism of israeli bombing is obviously not antisemitic. But anyone'd be forgiven for thinking that's all we care about this week. Which under the circumstances is weird.

My concerns about Turkey are that it's also bombing Syria, not with the aim of stopping jihadis from grabbing planes and chlorine factories but with the aim of crushing kurdish aspirations to independence. I'm surprised this isn't being reported and commented on a lot more.

Still, zionists eh ?

 

[_Russ_]

Yeah OK, I think post after post focusing primarily on Israeli actions is more akin to whataboutery but whatever.

You obviously have a poor understanding of the term

 

[brogdale]

Yeah OK, I think post after post focusing primarily on Israeli actions is more akin to whataboutery but whatever.


I was replying to Russ, for my sins. That's the explication.


In itself criticism of israeli bombing is obviously not antisemitic. But anyone'd be forgiven for thinking that's all we care about this week. Which under the circumstances is weird.

My concerns about Turkey are that it's also bombing Syria, not with the aim of stopping jihadis from grabbing planes and chlorine factories but with the aim of crushing kurdish aspirations to independence. I'm surprised this isn't being reported and commented on a lot more.

Still, zionists eh ?

Yeah, but there are plenty of posters here who have discussed the various external players and their impacts on the lives of ordinary Syrian citizens in this 13 year old thread, long before you first posted on 30/11/24 when prompted by a reference to Isreal's role in the fall of Assad.

I accept that the the MSM is, at present, more focussed on the military actions of Israel than of Turkey, but that appears to make sense when it is the Israeli state has launched such a widespread, decisive and potentially destabilising destruction of former Syrian regime assets.

It's also interesting to note that (with the usual caveats regarding captured documents) details are emerging of the Israeli control and coordination with Russia, of the SAA in the interests of suppressing Axis of Resistance logistics:

 

[zahir]

This looks like a comment from Al-Jolani on Israel - he doesn't sound particularly concerned.

 

[A380]

Attack on Mers-el-Kébir - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, was this the right thing to do or nor? When 'we' the British killed over 1000 of our former allies' sailors?