And next, Syria?

[Casually Red]

All extremist ideologies are irrational, and Exceptionalism is no exception.

I think it's become the exception because it's dominating global discourse . Unlike other extremism it's straddles the globe. And not just politically and militarily but culturally . It's promoted by Hollywood and the like , by the biggest news corporations . The exceptionalism is just taken for granted . It's so insidious and banal . Anyone , anywhere ,who doesn't ascribe to it immediately goes on the shit list . Including on here .

 

[Casually Red]

Actually I believe NATO kindly stepped in to be the Daesh airforce, the 'no-fly zone' spiel (rapidly becoming close-air support) that Russia and China fell for at the time but decided "not this time chum" when the same sort of nfz-game was proposed re northern Syria.

Once could be seen...by the gullible...as a mistake . Twice is deliberate . And remember too this faction only came into being after they removed Saddam, who'd have hung them by the balls . So really that's almost 3 times in recent years . And if Islamists ever take Kosovo it'll be 4 .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Of course they don't care , which goes to the root of their reasons for intervention in the first place . According to them ...now after 4 years of pumping billions into a meat grinder conflict...all of a sudden they don't want Bashar to go..at least not right away ...sort of...um..yeah..that'd be sort of bad . Mebbe he could stay on a bit until we find somebody who could be acceptable enough for us to replace him . Never mind the Syrians who voted for him. The west are demanding they mustn't ever be allowed to vote for him ever again !! And never mind all the voices that told them for years the downfall of the state would lead Syria into unimaginable horror. Now they see that...sort of..grudgingly unconvinced but maybe they've a point kind of thing . But they simply don't care.
That's why Putins address to them, " do you realise what you've done ?" isn't just point scoring and rhetoric . There was never a truer word spoken . They don't care and never did . They're mad and incompetent . Running about the place destroying nation after nation while parroting the same old consumer orientated liberal rubbish to justify it . Psychopaths .

The propaganda style is different in the US, though. Clearly even for public consumption, 'stopping Russia' is reason enough for action. 'Bombing Russia' is only not done out of pragmatism - so you bomb proxies in proxy wars instead. The words are straight from the Cold War.

Here in the UK, the apologists for intervention frame the discussion in terms of ethical dilemmas and saving lives, which is a sick joke, of course, but a different kind of sick joke.

 

[Casually Red]

The propaganda style is different in the US, though. Clearly even for public consumption, 'stopping Russia' is reason enough for action. 'Bombing Russia' is only not done out of pragmatism - so you bomb proxies in proxy wars instead. The words are straight from the Cold War.

Here in the UK, the apologists for intervention frame the discussion in terms of ethical dilemmas and saving lives, which is a sick joke, of course, but a different kind of sick joke.

Oh definitely...but I think too it's getting to the stage in the uk were its crept in too .as Americanisms generally do . Not quite as in your face as in the US , but it's there nontheless .From the Guardian to the Sun " Russia" is a scary word . Like IS and Ebola . And it's definitely a trigger word on here even among certain lefty snobs who'd tell you they wre above that type of thing .

Just the other week Corbyn was offering the shadow defence post to some punter who took him to task on Triden , by asking him "what if Britain needs to invade Russia ?" I think Corbyn quietly put the phone down . So those nutters are in the Uk establishment too, left and right, and are just as nuts as the yank ones.

One thing that's struck me though is that buffoon Trump is one of the few American politicians talking any kind of sense as regards Russian intervention in Syria . As well as being pretty aghast at the nature of the people Clinton, McCain et al want to support .It's possible that balloon might actually keep the United states out of nuclear Armageddon.

Having said that he might end up nuking somewhere else for not letting him build a golf course .

 

[butchersapron]

Here in the UK, the apologists for intervention frame the discussion in terms of ethical dilemmas and saving lives, which is a sick joke, of course, but a different kind of sick joke.

Who do you mean?

Because you'te now being used by people who justify mass slaughter.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Who do you mean?

Ex-oxfam labour MP, for instance, and her tory chum.

 

[butchersapron]

Ex-oxfam labour MP, for instance, and her tory chum.

Not posters on here? Because that's who he means.

 

[Casually Red]

Ex-oxfam labour MP, for instance, and her tory chum.

Actually I think she was second choice. The one before her that he hung up on was even nuttier .
As regards on here though you're right, the lefty interventionists prefer to use the usual cynical emotive triggers rather than play on your fears . Bashar is a " bad man " therefore " we must do something " to support " the revolution..against the baaaad maaan . He's bad. Man ."

That type of thing .

 

[camouflage]

Oh definitely...but I think too it's getting to the stage in the uk were its crept in too .as Americanisms generally do . Not quite as in your face as in the US , but it's there nontheless .From the Guardian to the Sun " Russia" is a scary word . Like IS and Ebola . And it's definitely a trigger word on here even among certain lefty snobs who'd tell you they wre above that type of thing .

Just the other week Corbyn was offering the shadow defence post to some punter who took him to task on Triden , by asking him "what if Britain needs to invade Russia ?" I think Corbyn quietly put the phone down . So those nutters are in the Uk establishment too, left and right, and are just as nuts as the yank ones.

One thing that's struck me though is that buffoon Trump is one of the few American politicians talking any kind of sense as regards Russian intervention in Syria . As well as being pretty aghast at the nature of the people Clinton, McCain et al want to support .It's possible that balloon might actually keep the United states out of nuclear Armageddon.

Having said that he might end up nuking somewhere else for not letting him build a golf course .

Agreed. Reminds me of watching Question Time the other week with particular alarm. Britains Nuclear Suicide Cult rules unquestioned, god help anyone who questions the utility of Trident or whether 'pressing the button' and participating in initiating the firey annihilation of the species (and all animal life on Earth for a couple million years thereafter) would be a good idea in any circumstance (least of all some probable squabble among ruling elites over the spoils of some resource or other). And Donald Trump (DONALD FUCKING TRUMP!!!) is now the voice of reason in US politics.

Pray to something.

 

[J Ed]

Putin: 'I support the struggle of Israel'

 

[Casually Red]

Agreed. Reminds me of watching Question Time the other week with particular alarm. Britains Nuclear Suicide Cult rules unquestioned, god help anyone who questions the utility of Trident or whether 'pressing the button' and participating in the firey annihilation of the species would be a good idea in any circumstance. And Donald Trump (DONALD FUCKING TRUMP!!!) is now the voice of reason in US politics.

Pray to something.

I think a deep breath and a bottle of wine ...or 2..might be of more use .

 

[camouflage]

I think a deep breath and a bottle of wine ...or 2..might be of more use .

I'm an atheist, yet pray to something, a bottle if you must. Oh sacred bottle, deliver us from the terror of human stupidity... verily I say, glug glug glug.

 

[Casually Red]

Putin: 'I support the struggle of Israel'

Right now his airforce is giving close support to not just the Syrian army but Iranians, Hezbollah, the Pflp and PLA . While creating a less than comfortable Syrian airspace for the zionists usual impunity . I can post up any amount of his statements supporting the Palestinians as well. And his calls for an end to attacks on Gaza . Which he even made in that selectively quoted article .

 

[Casually Red]

I'm an atheist, yet pray to something, a bottle if you must. Oh sacred bottle, deliver us from the terror of human stupidity... verily I say, glug glug glug.

I'm not an atheist but even I reckon the lords ways are too mysterious when it comes to lefty liberal interventionist types . Wines the job for me .

 

[Knotted]

Point to exactly were I ever said he was calling for support for Islamists . You're a liar .

Ok then. He managed to tick all those boxes of that western / NATO regime change , "lets support the decent, islamist terrorist "narrative completely by accident seems to be what you're suggesting.

I wonder if you have ever read anything put out by Anders fogh Rasmussen. He's not in the business of analysising various situations and giving that analysis the NATO stamp. He's about articulating the NATO position which is pretty vague with respect to Syria given various disagreements among and within various ruling parties of various NATO states.

I wonder if you have considered that the Syrian opposition of various stripes have come up with their own "narratives" without having a hotline to Anders fogh Rasmussen?

But are you really going to insist that a man who you know nothing about who in fact opposes intervention on an anti-imperialist basis is expounding a "NATO narrative" while insisting that you don't view Syria through the prism of big power politics? All the while getting all your info from RT and various dubious pro Russian blogs.

 

[Knotted]

Putin: 'I support the struggle of Israel'

More on the Russian contribution to the axis of resistance.

 

[J Ed]

More on the Russian contribution to the axis of resistance.

I get the impression that the Israeli government just wants the war to last indefinitely.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not up for wallowing in cruelty and sadism either, but do you deploy the same capacity for empathy with the 74% of Syrians that voted for Assad in 2014?

Explain this election please.

Did i miss you doing this?

 

[camouflage]

No, I just cant be bothered with ya.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

Russia just hosted a conference of Kurds - anyone got a link to an impartial report on that? - and now Assad has flown in to a meeting with Putin, alongside flurry of attacks in the "corridor" along Turkish border...possibly significant developments?

 

[butchersapron]

No, I just cant be bothered with ya.

Excellent, we'll just leave it at Syria being a fully functioning legitimate democracy and the coup that brought the assad regime to power is the original justification and basis for their legitimacy. Great stuff.

 

[butchersapron]

Russia just hosted a conference of Kurds - anyone got a link to an impartial report on that? - and now Assad has flown in to a meeting with Putin, alongside flurry of attacks in the "corridor" along Turkish border...possibly significant developments?

There is just a planned meeting today of the PYD and the russian foreign ministry with suggestion of a PYD 'mission' to be opened at a later date. The conference is with the Russian Institute of Strategic Research which appears to be a body designed to look objective in aggressively supporting the foreign affairs and plans of the russian state. I can't seem to find a full list of Kurdish participants to help work out what it's really for.

edit: pyd def there.

 

[camouflage]

Excellent, we'll just leave it at Syria being a fully functioning legitimate democracy and the coup that brought the assad regime to power is the original justification and basis for their legitimacy. Great stuff.

Didn't say any of that... just that I couldn't be bothered with you as an individual. Syrian politics and the role of the 2014 elections against the background of civil-war/stealth-invasion/attempted regime change by foreign interests/delegitimisation of the choice the Syrian people chose given the choice available to them is a far more interesting subject obviously.

 

[teqniq]

If true yet another nasty dimension to add the the catalogue of atrocities in Syria

Pro-Assad Militias Involved in Hama Human Organ Trade: Leaked Report

 

[butchersapron]

Didn't say any of that... just that I couldn't be bothered with you as an individual. Syrian politics and the role of the 2014 elections against the background of civil-war/stealth-invasion/attempted regime change by foreign interests/delegitimisation of the choice the Syrian people chose given the choice available to them is a far more interesting subject obviously.

Please go ahead and talk about that wonderful election then. The floor is yours. See if you can get the result right in your analysis this time though.

 

[J Ed]

If true yet another nasty dimension to add the the catalogue of atrocities in Syria

Pro-Assad Militias Involved in Hama Human Organ Trade: Leaked Report

Horrific if true, it would be a repeat of the KLA doing the same thing up to, during and I think after the Kosovo War.

 

[teqniq]

Sheikh Putin of Syria

 

[J Ed]

Apparently for most Russians, discussing the wisdom of plunging into a sectarian conflict hundreds of miles away is not nearly as exciting as simply watching televised images of warships firing cruise missiles into the darkness. While I am unable to judge what effect Russian bombs and missiles are producing on the people in Syria, I do know that here in Russia the broadcasts inspire awe, and not just among my countrymen: Moscow’s state-run TV caters to Russian speakers the world over. Dramatic footage of high-tech military sorties is now a programing staple — and an integral part of the Syrian operation. (Until a month ago, fighting in Ukraine kept people glued to their screens, but, as the old saying goes, “out of sight, out of mind.”)

Jesus Christ. The lack of self-awareness here is just breathtaking.

 

[butchersapron]

A more nuanced look at what the russian imperialist intervention has done to things. Doesn't make for happy reading:

Russia's Intervention in Syria: Protracting an Already Endless Conflict

In brief, not much military change, and what potential there is likely to be TOWed to fuck. The action is forcing closer military ties between non-isis rebels and saudi/qatar. Stronger commitment to the fight from the same rebel groups. Jihadi's using intervention as rallying cry for new Afghanistan. Huge increase in refugees. Yes, an increase on the already astonishing figures.

edit: oh yeah he hints that some MANPAD's are going to creep in soon, which will take things to another level.

 

[J Ed]

It's not about the size of events that's important. It's about how much we're on the side of the dissident movements. Because of the particular relationship between Britain and Yemen and Bahrain -they are not reported properly. The Metropolitan police have been training Bahraini police - does that get a mention on the BBC? No. It's actually much more important to us here than what the King of Bahrain said in a speech. But the speech is what gets reported.

Hi Aston, welcome to Urban. Can I ask where you are posting from and what brought you here?