Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
aneurysm beven
Anarchist Bookfair 2013 October 19th
- Thread starter jakethesnake
- Start date
sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
Have you got a link for this, I couldnt find any that went into any depth and weren't behind a paywall. And taking the word of Bracken, who was most likely behind the prostitute incident, is not something I'm going to do without a few shovelfuls of salt to go with it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is in every single biogrpahy - even Foots (also a beaverbrook groupie) hagiography. This is just standard very well known political history.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2XrPoA9AqMIC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=bevan bollinger bolshevik&source=bl&ots=a4rJ17MS0W&sig=8hFsPI6oKNVEssYC4rrTDeekl3o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EGFmUvXRO6mM0AW6h4H4CQ&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw
From a Bevan bio. Note the Michael Foot confirmation of the content.
Nothing wrong with enjoying life, everything wrong with doing it with Lord Beaverbrook.
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Let's not forget Bevan's association with Mosley's pre-but-proto-fascist New Party, and how he sold out on nukes, either. Not the pure, saintly figure some would have.
But making it about Bevan misses the point anyway, and buys into sunnyjim's hagiography. The NHS is an entirely different kettle of fish, and would have existed in some form with or without Bevan.
But making it about Bevan misses the point anyway, and buys into sunnyjim's hagiography. The NHS is an entirely different kettle of fish, and would have existed in some form with or without Bevan.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Glad to here that there were no cider fuelled happy slapping incidents that the Weekly Worker reported on a few years ago
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
One of the other noteworthy bits about that intersectionalist account of the bookfair is the aside about the anarcha-feminist meeting. Some (not adequately intersectionalised?) anarcha-feminist suggested that at a future conference they should have time to discuss controversial issues like abortion and sex work. And then gets shot down on a rather interesting basis:
"As was rightly pointed out by one of our irl comrades, we come to an anarcha fem space safe in the knowledge that if you are identifying as an anarchist you have rejected the system and discussions such as the one proposed are had by anarchists every day when combatting bigotry. This should not be the starting point; we should already have come to the conclusion that our feminism is inclusive. We might have our own feelings about sex work and abortion, heck, I have my own feelings about some Muslims but I’m not about to force my feelings on others because of the twisted experiences I have personally had"
Now this is rather vague, but in so far as I can extract meaning from it, it seems to amount to this: to have a different view to the writer on the feminist debates around prostitution is not just wrong, but threatening, inappropriate and not allowed in anarchist "space".
"As was rightly pointed out by one of our irl comrades, we come to an anarcha fem space safe in the knowledge that if you are identifying as an anarchist you have rejected the system and discussions such as the one proposed are had by anarchists every day when combatting bigotry. This should not be the starting point; we should already have come to the conclusion that our feminism is inclusive. We might have our own feelings about sex work and abortion, heck, I have my own feelings about some Muslims but I’m not about to force my feelings on others because of the twisted experiences I have personally had"
Now this is rather vague, but in so far as I can extract meaning from it, it seems to amount to this: to have a different view to the writer on the feminist debates around prostitution is not just wrong, but threatening, inappropriate and not allowed in anarchist "space".
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I would hazard a guess that to disagree with Sam on any basis is akin to a violent assault or worse.
I am glad I did not attend to be honest. I am not sure how well I would handle shouty people shouting kill all men in my face.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
???
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Bevin/an - okay, I'm a page too late.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
http://samambreen.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/yes-kill-all-men/
A follow up.
The core of it is that "these three words" "empower us somewhat with your reactions". Which is to say it's again justified not in tactical terms (eg convincing others) but in internal psychological terms.
The rest of it is largely straw man stuff (or to be fair, perhaps arguments against actual twitter responses. There is after all no stupidity too profound for twitter). With an amusing touch of collective responsibility in her hope that someday some random man at an event will sincerely apologise for the wrongs done by all men. Get on it male intersectionalists and post pictures!
Perhaps its time for Proletarian Democracy to set up a men's caucus for the specific purpose of issuing formal apologies? If our intersectionalist bros don't step up to the plate?
A follow up.
The core of it is that "these three words" "empower us somewhat with your reactions". Which is to say it's again justified not in tactical terms (eg convincing others) but in internal psychological terms.
The rest of it is largely straw man stuff (or to be fair, perhaps arguments against actual twitter responses. There is after all no stupidity too profound for twitter). With an amusing touch of collective responsibility in her hope that someday some random man at an event will sincerely apologise for the wrongs done by all men. Get on it male intersectionalists and post pictures!
Perhaps its time for Proletarian Democracy to set up a men's caucus for the specific purpose of issuing formal apologies? If our intersectionalist bros don't step up to the plate?
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ska invita
back on the other side
aside from all this Kill All Men stuff it sounds like the "Assangists" were completely out of order - the taking pictures and filming people bit is very suspect. Is there any other report of this other than Sams blog?
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Mullet man with the camcorder should have rightly, had that camcorder rammed up his arse.
newbie
undisambiguated
what will happen if 'communists' turn up and soapbox? How should provocative and confrontational opponents be treated?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Just twitter conversations so far, other than the "poor Assangists" indymedia piece and Ambreen's account. The feminist side were gathering reports though to produce a time line, so I'd expect a more comprehensive telling soon.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
JimW
支那暗杀团
Was most of the response really on just those words? Not followed as don't do twitter (or care very much) but she'd sort of have a point then. It's a daft sentiment and as pointed out above poor tactically but hardly a big deal. They won't be killing a pint, let alone all men. Dropping down to her lot's level to get too bothered by it IMO.
The chanting bit is more worrisome to me just because it seems so Moonie (as opposed to a more of a piss-take across the battle lines like you see at some demos)
The chanting bit is more worrisome to me just because it seems so Moonie (as opposed to a more of a piss-take across the battle lines like you see at some demos)
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
No statement as of yet, but there's an email going round afaik.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
What is meant by "communists"? Trots? or is it a more specific continuation of a historical feud with the ICC or something?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I think it specifically arose because some recent departee from the AF has a publication with communist in the name and was told he couldn't book a stall.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Fuck knows, I've not read the email. All will be revealed no doubt.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
We could issue individualised apologies, to each intersectionalist.
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