Anarchist Bookfair 2013 October 19th

[JimW]

Not sure I'm man enough to represent all men, and that despite once being man enough to represent our local at right back.

 

[The39thStep]

On another note, communists aren't welcome at the Manchester and Salford Anarchist Bookfair... liberals and hippies are though, of course.

Pity that as I had provisionally arranged to have the annual Kronstadt memorial re-enactment staged across the road.

 

[butchersapron]

On another note, communists aren't welcome at the Manchester and Salford Anarchist Bookfair... liberals and hippies are though, of course.

Yet they are allowing the stalinists of the International Brigade Memorial Trust to have a stall. But not an anarchist. Embarrassment.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The Dublin one is pretty easygoing about that sort of thing, to their credit. If I remember correctly, they've let left groups from way outside the anarchist spectrum have stalls. That way they don't end up in a position where they are trying to evaluate the anarchist merits of vegan bakers versus communists or whatever.

 

[butchersapron]

A few years back there was a hoo-ha at the bristol one when i tried to book a stall on a basis they felt was not anarchist enough. Last week i saw people stopping the local maoist selling his paper at a meeting as well.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

A few years back there was a hoo-ha at the bristol one when i tried to book a stall on a basis they felt was not anarchist enough. Last week i saw people stopping the local maoist selling his paper at a meeting as well.

Clowns.

 

[cesare]

Did the SWP end up setting up shop outside later in the afternoon, btw? I only saw the SP up til about 12.45

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Did the SWP end up setting up shop outside later in the afternoon, btw? I only saw the SP up til about 12.45

I very much doubt it. They would be aware that it would mean a set piece row of a sort they have nothing to gain from. Then again, party notes is encouraging SWP members to attend the London reclaim the night and the forthcoming London feminist conference, so perhaps I'm giving them too much credit for good sense.

(Also, I will never understand the English SP's love of morning stalls. And at an anarchist event of all places to assume your prospective audience will be up and about).

 

[cesare]

I very much doubt it. They would be aware that it would mean a set piece row of a sort they have nothing to gain from. Then again, party notes is encouraging SWP members to attend the London reclaim the night and the forthcoming London feminist conference, so perhaps I'm giving them too much credit for good sense.

(Also, I will never understand the English SP's love of morning stalls. And at an anarchist event of all places to assume your prospective audience will be up and about).

I think they probably thought discretion was the better part of valour, but I was curious.

 

[emanymton]

I very much doubt it. They would be aware that it would mean a set piece row of a sort they have nothing to gain from. Then again, party notes is encouraging SWP members to attend the London reclaim the night and the forthcoming London feminist conference, so perhaps I'm giving them too much credit for good sense.

(Also, I will never understand the English SP's love of morning stalls. And at an anarchist event of all places to assume your prospective audience will be up and about).

No 4am industrial sales for you then, Nigel?

 

[chilango]

(Also, I will never understand the English SP's love of morning stalls. And at an anarchist event of all places to assume your prospective audience will be up and about).

Morning sales avoid wasting valuable pub time.

 

[barney_pig]

Years back, I remember having a chat over a drink in the RISC bar after an swp meeting in the rooms above, and being informed that as the (empty) bar was a 'gay night' our heterosexual presence was intimidatory and we were not welcome.

 

[Sue]

(Also, I will never understand the English SP's love of morning stalls. And at an anarchist event of all places to assume your prospective audience will be up and about).

Saturday mornings in Hackney, the SWP sell their papers outside Marks and Spencer and the SP sell theirs a bit further down outside Paddy Power. Can never work out if there's some symbolism there and if so, if it's un/intentional...

 

[emanymton]

My local SWP branch sells outside Ann summers

 

[Wilf]

My local SWP branch sells outside Ann summers

Basque struggles.

 

[tufty79]

Basque struggles.

 

[cesare]

Basque struggles.

 

[gamerunknown]

Saturday mornings in Hackney, the SWP sell their papers outside Marks and Spencer and the SP sell theirs a bit further down outside Paddy Power. Can never work out if there's some symbolism there and if so, if it's un/intentional...

SWP are Social Darwinists, SP Provos?

Which is why the insurance principle was rejected outright

I don't think it was - in fact, I think it was expanded, which is how I can justify "supporting" the NHS from an anarchist perspective.

Fire, theft and accident insurance (especially in villages where equality of conditions permits the charge of an equal premium for all inhabitants), the arrangement by which great English stores will supply for 1s. per week all the fish which a small family may consume, clubs, the innumerable societies of insurance against sickness, etc., etc.. This mass of institutions, created during the 19th century, are an approach towards Communism with regard to part of our total consumption.

Now I say that, to establish equality among men, it is only necessary to generalize the principle upon which insurance, agricultural, and commercial associations are based.

It is a little odd to recognise how the state has shifted, quite often as a result of popular pressure (rather than merely resolutions of contradictions within capitalism). One may now answer yes to some of these questions:

What rôle does the government play in your existence? Does it help you live? Does it feed, clothe, and shelter you? Do you need it to help you work or play? If you are ill, do you call the physician or the policeman? Can the government give you greater ability than nature endowed you with? Can it save you from sickness, old age, or death?

Of course, in an anarchist society, healthcare would end up being transformed - there would be no hierarchical organisation of function. Different aspects of what healthcare will look like must be acknowledged though. The first is that (accepting the labour theory of value) employer or union funded healthcare within a state capitalist system is more regressive than utilising a progressive income tax. The second, again accepting the labour theory of value, is that resources must be rationed according to how much socially useful labour can be reified*. How resources are voluntarily allocated will likely depend on such measures as "Quality Adjusted Life Years", which is the standard way of doing so, but involve participation from the mass of the community. To be fair, there has been some support for involving the community in decisions of the NHS, possibly fuelled by classical liberal attempts to generate choice from above, rather concordant with the internal market. Of course, barriers to entry for working class people prevent attendance at independent reviews and healthwatch panels. In an anarchist society, one can only hope that the level of socially useful labour necessary is low enough for people to be involved in administering healthcare voluntarily.

* Thus the following argument from the otherwise excellent "The Floodgates of Anarchy" doesn't really hold:

But, the bewildered reformer cries, if the rich were not taxed they would be buying second yachts while there would be no funds available for artificial teeth under the National Health Service! It may be wondered if they suppose that a yacht builder can make false teeth, or a dental mechanic uses seasoned timber? Liberalism, like parliamentary socialism, ignores the con trick of the money system, sharing Tory thinking on the real value of money.

The other two points depend on nationalism and internationalism. Should anarchism reign in a single nation, with porous borders "in", one could expect capital flight. This would not necessarily lead to a collapse of healthcare under old liberal principles - one of the artificial barriers to practicing healthcare would be abolished, namely that of accreditation. Now, in most cases, I don't deny that gruelling training is wonderful. I rely heavily on Quackwatch (sawbones ain't sawbones!) and dump any books on "homeopathy" or "natural healing" straight into the bin where I volunteer (I would recycle them, but there's no facility to, unfortunately). However, I hold that it's entirely possible for most individuals to learn the basic principles of triage and get acquainted with one type of surgical procedure. This would normally the province of a specialist that would have to learn the Latin names of every bone in the body before going near someone. The alternatives are to hold that every person with the knowledge and expertise to command a higher entitlement exchange would willingly give that privilege up because of a commitment to egalitarianism, or to accept permanent inequality. The former assumption is drastically at odds with the anarchist conception of human nature - in fact, as Gerald Cohen noted in "If You're an Egalitarian, How Come You're So Rich", if everyone were a perfectly informed angel, capitalism would proceed without contradictions - a single individual with a huge hoard of capital would invest it so as to maximise group utility. The latter is no less at odds with communist anarchism, though would be in accord with Rawlsian justice and the basis of a currency like "Ithaca Hours" (which value the labour time of dentists and doctors above that of the proletaire). An internationalist health service following an anarchist revolution would probably mean lots of hard work just getting places like the Central African Republic, Sierra Leone and Lesotho up to par, without a lot of return for the nations funding them (other than the benefits of having more productive workforces globally). Which leads to the following:

The Peckham Health scheme was a fine example of communal practice combining prevention with cure which many felt was an example of how an anarchist society might operate.

One of the criticisms levelled at centralised planning in the USSR by Bookchin (IIRC, can't find the quote), was that steel produced at one factory was shipped halfway across the country while it was needed by a manufactory next door, which had to halt production. The same principle occurs in capitalist economies (countries with high rates of malnutrition may export food) and could even occur in countries where the needs of the population were considered (by taking into account opportunity costs of shifting steel and having an accurate scale to determine "need"). A similar problem would occur with voluntary systems of healthcare along local lines - a motive for rescission would remain, individuals would still underestimate the likelihood of their falling ill or having an accident and distinctions between regions would become entrenched (if I were living in South Kensington, would I want my healthcare insurance shared with individuals from Tower Hamlets, for instance?). This problem is known as the "Inverse Care Law" in socialist literature (a pun on the "inverse square law" in physics).

Moreover, the national health insurance has partly done away with the idea that a working-class patient is a pauper who deserves little consideration. Well into this century it was usual for ‘free’ patients at the big hospitals to have their teeth extracted with no anaesthetic. They didn't pay, so why should they have an anaesthetic — that was the attitude. That too has changed.

Of course, the opposition to monopolies from Andrade could be invoked by right-libertarians claiming "Pareto-efficiency", just as Proudhon's opposition to communism due to their neglect of the "country" or "family" (v.s) is latched on to by crypto-fascists.

They're not going away infact the rhetoric is basically all out war against any anarchist who doesn't conform to their notions of fighting the Kyriarchy.

But anarchists look equally bizarre to the parliamentary left.

 

[gawkrodger]

Fucking idiots all around....

and here is the pithy summary I was looking for!

 

[malatesta32]

sad EDL offshoot threatened to 'attack' the book fair. im assuming it didnt happen?

 

[TopCat]

sad EDL offshoot threatened to 'attack' the book fair. im assuming it didnt happen?

Unless they were the "kill all men" posse then no.

 

[malatesta32]

quel surprise! it would have been entertaining if nothing else.

 

[malatesta32]

watch out bristol, the EDL are on their way to build community cohesion.

 

[kenny g]

All this shows to me is how detached the webs can be from political reality. I WENT to the fayre - saw some talks, bought a few pamphlets, had a few chats, went home. The event I went to bears very little relation to all the noise here, however amusing it may be.

I suppose a parallel would be three thousand people go out on the town. A few have a row and post fuck loads of tweets about it. It certainly doesn't define the night out.

 

[cesare]

All this shows to me is how detached the webs can be from political reality. I WENT to the fayre - saw some talks, bought a few pamphlets, had a few chats, went home. The event I went to bears very little relation to all the noise here, however amusing it may be.

I suppose a parallel would be three thousand people go out on the town. A few have a row and post fuck loads of tweets about it. It certainly doesn't define the night out.

Yes, see also people that form views of what's going on by reference to twitter alone, then reference twitter as a thermometer despite any "haven't seen that here" views to the contrary.

 

[kenny g]

Yes, see also people that form views of what's going on by reference to twitter alone, then reference twitter as a thermometer despite any "haven't seen that here" views to the contrary.

Who would have believed that after 20 years of the internet many peeps seem to prefer a reality based on 140 character messages? I suppose in another 20 people will be blipping dots at each other.

Must be getting old.

 

[revol68]

Yes, see also people that form views of what's going on by reference to twitter alone, then reference twitter as a thermometer despite any "haven't seen that here" views to the contrary.

As a medium twitter is perfect for empty sloganeering, jumping on and calling out, oh that and every twat trying to be Oscar Wilde.

I actually detest it.

 

[kenny g]

As a medium twitter is perfect for empty sloganeering, jumping on and calling out, oh that and every twat trying to be Oscar Wilde.

I actually detest it.

But it caused all those revolutions, and the broom army.

 

[revol68]

But it caused all those revolutions, and the broom army.

The Broom Army need shooting.

 

[kenny g]

The Broom Army need shooting.

Charming

England riots: Are brooms the symbol of the resistance?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14475741