America going soft on capital punishment

[Saul Goodman]

So the person who kills a mass murderer is as bad as them in your view? Really?

What if the murderer only killed one person, and only did that because they were being abused by the person they killed?

 

[NoXion]

What if the murderer only killed one person, and only did that because they were being abused by the person they killed?

If I were on the jury in that case, I would consider that to be self defense on the part of the abused victim.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

If I were on the jury in that case, I would consider that to be self defense on the part of the abused victim.

And if you're not on that jury, and it happens to be an all white one sitting in Texas and the accused is black and the dead abuser white, the poor sod dies.

 

[NoXion]

And if you're not on that jury, and it happens to be an all white one sitting in Texas and the accused is black and the dead abuser white, the poor sod dies.

I am aware of how racist the US courts and wider US society in general is. Hence why I think that executions in the US should stop. I'm still not against capital punishment in general, however.

 

[hash tag]

So the person who kills a mass murderer is as bad as them in your view? Really?

I could not kill/execute anyone.
going off track, I don't believe that you should support thecdeath penalty if you cannot carry out the execution yourself.

 

[Spymaster]

going off track, I don't believe that you should support thecdeath penalty if you cannot carry out the execution yourself.

What a load of old bollocks.

 

[NoXion]

I could not kill/execute anyone.
going off track, I don't believe that you should support thecdeath penalty if you cannot carry out the execution yourself.

I don't know whether I could kill someone or not. I've never been in that situation. In any case were I to find myself in that situation, my hope is that I would make the right decision, whichever one that happens to be.

There are lots of things I support which I am incapable of doing myself. The capability of a specific individual to do something has no bearing on whether that something is worth doing or not.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I am aware of how racist the US courts and wider US society in general is. Hence why I think that executions in the US should stop. I'm still not against capital punishment in general, however.

You have me thinking, trying to think of a state which uses capital punishment and does so in a fair manner. I guess Singapore comes closest, but the vast majority seem to be very far away from fair and even in the application of it.

 

[NoXion]

You have me thinking, trying to think of a state which uses capital punishment and does so in a fair manner. I guess Singapore comes closest, but the vast majority seem to be very far away from fair and even in the application of it.

Can bourgeois states even be said to be fair? If not, then all of their pronouncements on the fates of the little people are fundamentally unjust, whether it be execution, or losing decades of one's life in some miserable hellhole and coming out either in a coffin or in a mess.

So perhaps long prison sentences should be made history too?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A long prison sentence can subsequently be shortened, an execution can’t be reversed.

 

[NoXion]

A long prison sentence can subsequently be shortened, an execution can’t be reversed.

How often does that happen, really? Especially in the US where prison labour is lucrative. In fact, that might be the actual reason why executions might cease in the near future - it's not as profitable. Bonus points if you can spin execution as being an easy way out, to make the whole idea more palatable to the right-wing authoritarian lot.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

How often does that happen, really? Especially in the US where prison labour is lucrative. In fact, that might be the actual reason why executions might cease in the near future - it's not as profitable. Bonus points if you can spin execution as being an easy way out, to make the whole idea more palatable to the right-wing authoritarian lot.

It happens quite a lot in the US, look up what happened in Illinois for an eye opener.

My objection to capital punishment is based primarily on the effects it has in those involved in carrying it out. In the UK for hundreds of years the state employed people to kill others on the states behalf. Every look at those employed to do it throws up massive damage to that person, also to the prison governors and prison officers. The common theme is young working class man looking for a bit of excitement in an otherwise routine life signs up, does his thing, is haunted by it and turns to substance abuse, leading in many cases to domestic violence and/or suicide.

I don’t think it is right to for the state to do that to people.

The move towards ‘humane’ executions is designed to eliminate this effect, but someone still has to find the vein, insert the needle, push the button. The guards and governor (warden in the US) still bond with the condemned.

Capital punishment brutalises every one involved in it without reducing the crime rate. So why have it?

 

[Yossarian]

How often does that happen, really? Especially in the US where prison labour is lucrative. In fact, that might be the actual reason why executions might cease in the near future - it's not as profitable. Bonus points if you can spin execution as being an easy way out, to make the whole idea more palatable to the right-wing authoritarian lot.

Prisoners aren't being executed in numbers big enough to make any difference to industries using prison labour - execution isn't even among the leading causes of death on Death Row in a lot of states.

If the whole prison system was run for profit, many sentences would probably be a lot shorter - they'd work them for a few decades then turn them loose before they were likely to need expensive medications or dialysis or anything.

 

[hash tag]

This is worth a read and the case which most readily springs to mind for various reasons. Kris is an elderly British citizen and is in failing health. MAny years ago he was sentenced to death for a murder he clearly did not commit.
Since then, his sentence has been "reduced" to life imprisonment. Kris Maharaj - Reprieve

 

[hash tag]

I don't know whether I could kill someone or not. I've never been in that situation. In any case were I to find myself in that situation, my hope is that I would make the right decision, whichever one that happens to be.

There are lots of things I support which I am incapable of doing myself. The capability of a specific individual to do something has no bearing on whether that something is worth doing or not.

 

[Spymaster]

It’s perfectly reasonable. Do you advocate that only those who slaughter animals should eat meat too? Only people who service cars should drive? It’s a ridiculous, childish proposition.

 

[hash tag]

The animal analogy is a good one, yes. You should not eat meat unless at least you are able to pull the trigger.
Servicing cars and butchering meat is a skill to be learnt, whereas most people could easily pull a trigger if asked.

 

[Spymaster]

What a load of old pony.

 

[hash tag]

Is there a better test?

 

[Spymaster]

Test of what?

 

[Pickman's model]

Is there a better test?

yes

next

 

[hash tag]

If you were to speak to an individual if they agreed with something the test question is could you do it yourself?

What better test, of an individual is there?

 

[Spymaster]

If you were to speak to an individual if they agreed with something the test question is could you do it yourself?

What better test, of an individual is there?

Several I’d imagine but why is it necessary to “test” this person at all?

 

[Orang Utan]

If you were to speak to an individual if they agreed with something the test question is could you do it yourself?

What better test, of an individual is there?

I agree that more social housing should be built, but I couldn't do it myself

 

[Spymaster]

How should people who sell meat be tested? And why?

 

[Pickman's model]

If you were to speak to an individual if they agreed with something the test question is could you do it yourself?

What better test, of an individual is there?

don't talk such arrant shit

that's what pa wants to say, and by all that's unholy he's right

 

[Orang Utan]

Saw a report in NYT c/o Observer on Sunday to the effect that the tide is finally turning in the States against capital punishment, part in thanks to enlightened people in Europe or is it?

Love the quaint idea that it's down to enlightened Europeans influencing those brutish Americans.

 

[Yossarian]

The "could you do it" thing might be a red herring - I couldn't be one of those investigators that looks at child porn all day trying to identify suspects, I'd lose my mind, but I'm glad somebody's doing it.

Executioner, I couldn't do it because I'm against capital punishment, but I think it would be very easy to find people willing to do it - with people like Ian Huntley, you could probably raffle off the opportunity.

 

[Spymaster]

It’s a silly position that’s used by antis just for something to say. It’s not based on any meaningful principle that is mirrored in any other areas of society.

 

[Spymaster]

Capital punishment brutalises every one involved in it without reducing the crime rate.

Really? Is there some new research on this that you've seen recently then?