America going soft on capital punishment

[hash tag]

Saw a report in NYT c/o Observer on Sunday to the effect that the tide is finally turning in the States against capital punishment, part in thanks to enlightened people in Europe or is it? This is certainly no reason to ease up ones thoughts on the issue, but it would appear that there may yet be hope!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/04/opinion/sylvie-kauffman-us-execution-european-abolition.html

 

[Dogsauce]

If the massive prison corporations can make more money out of keeping people incarcerated for life I can see them joining the fight. It's probably the only way it'll happen.

 

[likesfish]

i think the various attempts at lethal injections trying to make an execution a medical procedure and making a complete and utter balls of it.
Wont have helped.

 

[Yossarian]

Support might be dropping in some places but I think it'll be another generation or more before they even try to abolish the death penalty in states like Texas - if the Supreme Court outlawed it tomorrow there'd be some serious talk of secession.

 

[hash tag]

Double murderer's final meal before being executed is revealed

Not something a murderer would normally say as he takes his last "I didn’t kill anybody."

Class "But a relative reportedly shouted 'f*** you' and waved as Hannon's execution took place."

 

[skyscraper101]

The whole thing about lethal injections being witnessed via a glass window by the victim’s family weirds me out.

 

[likesfish]

the whole things weird at least the British long drop was quick when done by a somebody who knew what they were doing.
trying to make the whole thing civilised misses the point your murdering someone in cold blood.
some people do deserve it not sure the state should be encouraging the worst in us.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The whole thing about lethal injections being witnessed via a glass window by the victim’s family weirds me out.

The 8th amendment prohibits the US government from administering "cruel and unusual punishment" to its victims servants people.
Surely execution is a pretty fucking "cruel and unusual punishment"? I know the fucking innocents on death row would agree with me!

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

My state almost managed it. The legislature voted to end it, citing the huge costs and inefficiency of the system. But, our billionaire governor decided to fund a campaign to put it on a public ballot. The cities voted to end it, the rural parts voted to keep it. Unfortunately, there's still a vast rural area and very little city.

 

[Saul Goodman]

It's fucking great, innit. How the second amendment rights of Americans are sacrosanct, yet the 8th amendment is glossed over, like it's a boil on America's arse!
So the right to own a gun is more important than the right to fucking live?!?!?
I'm sorry if this offends any of our cross-Atlantic cousins, but FFS. Sort your priorities out!

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The whole thing about lethal injections being witnessed via a glass window by the victim’s family weirds me out.

I have often stated that if a state is to have capital punishment it must be done publicly and the people in whose name it is done compelled to watch and participate.

The faux medical nature of lethal injection shows the squeamishness of the states that do it, China has now gone that way as well as the US. In Iran it is public and afaik has majority public support, the victim’s family can participate, see the killing of Shahla Jahed for example, crying and begging for her life as the victim’s family kicked away the stool to let her be strangled to death. Sick as fuck, but a tad more honest than sanitised version that happens with lethal injection.

 

[hash tag]

I'm with Saul Goodman in so much as it is not weird but cruel, unusual and inhumane. It is cold bloodied murder in the name of the state.
It is wrong on so many counts.

 

[Poi E]

Nations that permit this exercise of ultimate state power wielded against an individual should feel ashamed to use the word freedom.

 

[NoXion]

I have often stated that if a state is to have capital punishment it must be done publicly and the people in whose name it is done compelled to watch and participate.

The faux medical nature of lethal injection shows the squeamishness of the states that do it, China has now gone that way as well as the US. In Iran it is public and afaik has majority public support, the victim’s family can participate, see the killing of Shahla Jahed for example, crying and begging for her life as the victim’s family kicked away the stool to let her be strangled to death. Sick as fuck, but a tad more honest than sanitised version that happens with lethal injection.

I find the medicalisation of execution to be disturbing, but it's just as disturbing to revel in it as you seem to suggest. I'm of the opinion that if capital punishment is to be done, then it should be done quickly and with an absolute minimum of pomp and circumstance. Drawing it out and making some sort of sick ceremony out of it is a gross and unnecessary display of power on the part of the state, and involving relatives and/or the public brutalises society as a whole. With regards to method, hanging can be really quick if done right and if those skills aren't available, I would say shooting is the next best thing.

In the particular case of the US it's obvious to me that, given the fact that people on death row are disproportionately non-white, racism is a problem and it would be better all round for executions to stop.

 

[hash tag]

The majority of people on death row are also poor...there is no equality when it comes to ending up on death row.
medical people are committed to saving lives, not destroying it. Therefore they should not be involved in the execution process. Besides, executions are just wrong.

 

[NoXion]

Besides, executions are just wrong.

I don't buy that. If someone is guilty of facilitating a program of torture, murder and genocide then I would actually sleep more soundly knowing that such a person is safely dead.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I don't buy that. If someone is guilty of facilitating a program of torture, murder and genocide then I would actually sleep more soundly knowing that such a person is safely dead.

What if they weren't guilty?

 

[NoXion]

What if they weren't guilty?

Such things can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt, you know.

 

[hash tag]

You cannot prove intent.

 

[StoneRoad]

When you can revive someone who was executed, if it is subsequently found that the conviction was unsafe ...
... then I might consider supporting the death penalty.
Until then, I oppose these acts of state sanctioned murder.

 

[Spymaster]

Anders Breivik

 

[Yossarian]

I'd think it was hilarious if Breivik accidentally got electrocuted by his PlayStation or whatever but I'm glad Norway hasn't executed him - they haven't executed anybody in peacetime since 1876, changing the law and tradition for Breivik would just make him seem more important.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Such things can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt, you know.

And cops have never lied to get a conviction.

 

[hash tag]

I don't buy that. If someone is guilty of facilitating a program of torture, murder and genocide then I would actually sleep more soundly knowing that such a person is safely dead.

Could you sleep soundly at night knowing you had just killed someone or would you absolve yourself of guilt and responsibility in the knowledge that you were killing someone on the orders of someone else?
It helps me to sleep knowing that these people are locked up and out of harms way.

 

[kabbes]

Could you sleep soundly at night knowing you had just killed someone or would you absolve yourself of guilt and responsibility in the knowledge that you were killing someone on the orders of someone else?
It helps me to sleep knowing that these people are locked up and out of harms way.

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia
(Emphasis mine)

Milgram elaborated two theories:

• The first is the theory of conformism...
• The second is the agentic state theory, wherein, per Milgram, "the essence of obedience consists in the fact that a person comes to view themselves as the instrument for carrying out another person's wishes, and they therefore no longer see themselves as responsible for their actions. Once this critical shift of viewpoint has occurred in the person, all of the essential features of obedience follow".

 

[Spymaster]

I'd think it was hilarious if Breivik accidentally got electrocuted by his PlayStation or whatever but I'm glad Norway hasn't executed him - they haven't executed anybody in peacetime since 1876, changing the law and tradition for Breivik would just make him seem more important.

The point being that there are indeed occasions where there can be no doubt whatsoever of a person's intent or guilt.

 

[kabbes]

The point being that there are indeed occasions where there can be no doubt whatsoever of a person's intent or guilt.

Extreme cases make for bad law, as the old saying goes.

 

[Pac man]

And cops have never lied to get a conviction.

Everyday i imagine. A good friend of mine applied for the police and went to the training but failed the interviews for being too analytical, something to do with arguing to have more coppers on the beat. So he went to uni instead, hes a successful Barrister now.

 

[hash tag]

What if they weren't guilty?

collateral damage.

 

[NoXion]

Could you sleep soundly at night knowing you had just killed someone or would you absolve yourself of guilt and responsibility in the knowledge that you were killing someone on the orders of someone else?
It helps me to sleep knowing that these people are locked up and out of harms way.

So the person who kills a mass murderer is as bad as them in your view? Really?