A thank you to Brexiteers.

[brogdale]

Not that I was born, but iirc, the selling points were that joining the EC was like walking into a really big supermarket, and the 'Europe together' idea was fairly well grasped by a huge swathe of the population, most of whom had very vivid memories of major European land wars.

If someone offered me the EC of the 70's I'd take it like a tramp on hot chips...

My memory (albeit only teenage) was that the arguments deployed to ratify the 1973 accession were more traditionally based in consolidating on the social contract; trade, business, jobs, incomes and security.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not that I was born, but iirc, the selling points were that joining the EC was like walking into a really big supermarket, and the 'Europe together' idea was fairly well grasped by a huge swathe of the population, most of whom had very vivid memories of major European land wars.

If someone offered me the EC of the 70's I'd take it like a tramp on hot chips...

Also, the EEC wasn't the EU as we know it now. Maastricht, Lisbon etc came much later.

There was some resonance in the leave campaign with older people - my mum and dad, eg - who say they 'only' voted for a common market in the 70s. Aside from the anti-immigrant stuff, which was the most important factor of all, let's face it, this was also encapsulated by the Take Back Control narrative.

 

[andysays]

It was absolute genius I think, the take back control slogan.

It was, and part of its genius was that it could be interpreted in many different ways by different people.

One of those ways is certainly taking back control from "foreigners", and that was clearly intended by the authors of the phrase and was undeniably responded to by significant Leave voters. But it could also mean taking back control from the supra-national EU bureaucracy, and that too had a substantial resonance among many of those who are not inherently anti-foreigner.

Taking back control could even refer to the workers taking control away from the supra-national EU bureaucratic state, the UK state and the multi-national capitalist concerns which currently combine to control most aspects of our lives. I don't think the authors of the Brexit campaign had that particular meaning in mind though.

 

[editor]

Make.America.Great

Again.


Also worked very well.

That also worked well at stirring up racism, jingoism and xenophobia.

 

[andysays]

Take Back Control operated on so many levels, get brexit done less inspired, imo.

I keep thinking about how come there was such a massive majority to join in the 1st place, in the 70s, am amazed by it tbh, is anyone old enough to know how joining the EU was sold so well to the public back then?
(yes too lazy to google, it’s my bday and I’m painting the bathroom walls).

Just to correct an apparent misapprehension on your part, the referendum in 1975 wasn't about joining the Common Market, it was about whether Britain should remain a member, having joined in 1973.

And (like the more recent one) it largely came about because the then-governing party was internally split and the PM saw it as a way of papering over the split by getting the backing of the electorate against some in the party. On that occasion, it worked...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Some ads were a little clearer about what they wanted to take back control of.

View attachment 260399

We’ve gone from a claim about ‘forrins’ (note smug superiority in the spelling: Look! Leave voters are thick!), to an erroneous and misleading claim about the slogan of the official campaign to a UKIP poster. All in the space of two pages.

Nobody could ever accuse remain supporters of consistency...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

We’ve gone from a claim about ‘forrins’ (note smug superiority in the spelling: Look! Leave voters are thick!), to an erroneous and misleading claim about the slogan of the official campaign to a UKIP poster. All in the space of two pages.

Nobody could ever accuse remain supporters of consistency...

This seems a little confused. Did people only pay attention to the official leave campaign material? UKIP very deliberately used the slogan in that racist ad. UKIP were not bit-players in this.

 

[MrSki]

And not just UKIP. Let's not forget that Johnson was explicit with his anti-Eastern European racism during the last election.

But Leave were more than happy to take Russian money.

No idea why Putin would want to split the EU.

So along with Murdoch, Putin The then Barclay brothers & Viscount Rothermere (All fine defenders of the British working class ) Steve Bannon & various hedge fund managers & those with large investments in tax havens is there anyone else who directly benefitted?

 

[prunus]

It was a good slogan, but there's also no slogan you could ever come up with that would have made remain not boring.

Stick Rees-Mogg up Farage's Arse and Set Fire to The Rancid Pair of Them.

More than 4 syllables. But good persuading power I think.

 

[Artaxerxes]

This seems a little confused. Did people only pay attention to the official leave campaign material? UKIP very deliberately used the slogan in that racist ad. UKIP were not bit-players in this.

No no, all Leave voters voted clearly and rationally and any whiff of xenophobia is purely in Remain voters imaginations so they should get over it.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This seems a little confused. Did people only pay attention to the official leave campaign material? UKIP very deliberately used the slogan in that racist ad. UKIP were not bit-players in this.

Brexit was at root and in actuality about the exit of the UK from a set of economic and political arrangements. It was not about ‘forrins’, taking control back from ‘forrins’ or even leaving Europe (despite what the piss poor scare mongerer Macron thinks). So, as this past few pages of debate show there is indeed ‘confusion’ - but not on my part

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Remain voters imaginations so they should get over it.

Finally, some sense...

 

[editor]

Brexit was at root and in actuality about the exit of the UK from a set of economic and political arrangements. It was not about ‘forrins’, taking control back from ‘forrins’ or even leaving Europe (despite what the piss poor scare mongerer Macron thinks). So, as this past few pages of debate show there is indeed ‘confusion’ - but not on my part

Seems there is, you know.

Brexit is strongly linked to xenophobia, according to scientists

‘I think the Leave campaign gave a new, acceptable way to express xenophobia’

www.independent.co.uk

Brexit 'major influence' in racism and hate crime rise

Community officers are being appointed around Wales to help deal with "tensions" in some areas.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Truth About Brexit and Xenophobia

The push to leave the European Union was never about anything but immigration

medium.com

Brexit is Not Just about Exiting the European Union: A Reading List

The United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union is indicative of not only its own narrow self-perception but also of the rise of an anti-immigration and racist stance put forth by right-wing groups. .tb_button {padding:1px;cursor:pointer;border-right: 1px solid #8b8b8b;border-left: 1px...

www.epw.in

 

[Pickman's model]

Seems there is, you know.

Brexit is strongly linked to xenophobia, according to scientists

‘I think the Leave campaign gave a new, acceptable way to express xenophobia’

www.independent.co.uk

Brexit 'major influence' in racism and hate crime rise

Community officers are being appointed around Wales to help deal with "tensions" in some areas.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Truth About Brexit and Xenophobia

The push to leave the European Union was never about anything but immigration

medium.com

Brexit is Not Just about Exiting the European Union: A Reading List

The United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union is indicative of not only its own narrow self-perception but also of the rise of an anti-immigration and racist stance put forth by right-wing groups. .tb_button {padding:1px;cursor:pointer;border-right: 1px solid #8b8b8b;border-left: 1px...

www.epw.in

what would be nice is if you could explain why you've selected these articles, some of which are several years auld, and if you could perhaps square the circle between your number 3 ('the push to leave the european union was never about anything but immigration') with the way that the financial backers of the leave campaign have made money from the departure and have subsequently influenced policy (see eg Boris, Brexit and the Hedge Funds (Part 1) for the first, and Why Boris Johnson's Funding from Hedge Funds is a Matter of Public Interest – Byline Times and Brexit Disaster Capitalism: Are Boris Johnson's Hedge Fund Backers Driving Policy? – Byline Times for the second). seems to me that this was much more likely about persuading people to do one thing so that another set of people could make a lot of money out of it than your 'it's all racism' which seems to me a facile analysis.

what's apparent from the past six years is that xenophobia increased during and after the referendum. but was this pre-existing sentiment only unleashed after the encouragement of the right-wing press, or was it new hate which was whipped up by the likes of the farage and johnson leave campaign and their supporters in the mainstream media?

 

[brogdale]

Brexit was at root and in actuality about the exit of the UK from a set of economic and political arrangements. It was not about ‘forrins’, taking control back from ‘forrins’ or even leaving Europe (despite what the piss poor scare mongerer Macron thinks). So, as this past few pages of debate show there is indeed ‘confusion’ - but not on my part

All true but, as in all elections, the electorate will have many varying levels of appreciation or perception about the key issues involved. It would be wrong to deny that for many Leave voters concerns about immigration was a key driver. Post polling has consistently demonstrated that many Leave voters were motivated to vote by the opportunity to halt FoM/in-migration of EU nationals.

And as for confusion, yes there was, understandably, plenty out there. In all honesty what % of the electorate is in a position to analyse the merits of varying trade arrangements, so it was no surprise that affective drivers often came to the fore including the perceived desire for sovereignty. Although, I remember at the time having conversations with more than one near neighbour in which it emerged that their concerns around sovereignty were about "our right to keep the Queen".

Denying any of this on the grounds of class solidarity just looks absurd and intellectually remote.

 

[editor]

what's apparent from the past six years is that xenophobia increased during and after the referendum. but was this pre-existing sentiment only unleashed after the encouragement of the right-wing press, or was it new hate which was whipped up by the likes of the farage and johnson leave campaign and their supporters in the mainstream media?

Both.

 

[Pickman's model]

Both.

but no defence of the articles selected in post 1033 i note.

 

[The39thStep]

All true but, as in all elections, the electorate will have many varying levels of appreciation or perception about the key issues involved. It would be wrong to deny that for many Leave voters concerns about immigration was a key driver. Post polling has consistently demonstrated that many Leave voters were motivated to vote by the opportunity to halt FoM/in-migration of EU nationals.

And as for confusion, yes there was, understandably, plenty out there. In all honesty what % of the electorate is in a position to analyse the merits of varying trade arrangement, so it was no surprise that affective drivers often came to the for including the perceived desire for sovereignty. Although, I remember at the time having conversations with more than one near neighbour in which it emerged that their concerns around sovereignty were about "our right to keep the Queen".

Denying any of this on the grounds of class solidarity just looks absurd and intellectually remote.

To be concerned about immigration and FOM isn’t necessarily racist .

 

[gosub]

what would be nice is if you could explain why you've selected these articles, some of which are several years auld, and if you could perhaps square the circle between your number 3 ('the push to leave the european union was never about anything but immigration') with the way that the financial backers of the leave campaign have made money from the departure and have subsequently influenced policy (see eg Boris, Brexit and the Hedge Funds (Part 1) for the first, and Why Boris Johnson's Funding from Hedge Funds is a Matter of Public Interest – Byline Times and Brexit Disaster Capitalism: Are Boris Johnson's Hedge Fund Backers Driving Policy? – Byline Times for the second). seems to me that this was much more likely about persuading people to do one thing so that another set of people could make a lot of money out of it than your 'it's all racism' which seems to me a facile analysis.
overturn
what's apparent from the past six years is that xenophobia increased during and after the referendum. but was this pre-existing sentiment only unleashed after the encouragement of the right-wing press, or was it new hate which was whipped up by the likes of the farage and johnson leave campaign and their supporters in the mainstream media?

The problem, I think, was that the referendum win felt like it gave the xenophobic element licence AND those whom sort to overturn the referendum thought talking about that dead cat was helpful to their cause...all the other aspects of the thing (of which there are many and of some import) got lost in noise and fractious framing

 

[gosub]

To be concerned about immigration and FOM isn’t necessarily racist .

To be concerned about immigration and FOM isn’t necessarily racist but

 

[Pickman's model]

To be concerned about immigration and FOM isn’t necessarily racist but

i don't suppose all racists are concerned with immigration, nor all those concerned with immigration are racists. but the overlap's quite noticeable.

 

[brogdale]

To be concerned about immigration and FOM isn’t necessarily racist .

Quite so and, tbf, neither Smokeandsteam nor myself were talking about racism, (I think?).
But, of course, concerns about immigration/FoM can emerge and be cultivated and exploited from racist views.
That was Farage's MO, and I'm sure that the official 'clean-skin' Leave campaign were well aware of the advantages in having an out-rider campaign willing to exploit xenophobia and drive voters to their box on the ballot paper.

 

[The39thStep]

To be concerned about immigration and FOM isn’t necessarily racist but

But what ? I’ve never supported open borders.

 

[The39thStep]

Quite so and, tbf, neither Smokeandsteam nor myself were talking about racism, (I think?).
But, of course, concerns about immigration/FoM can emerge and be cultivated and exploited from racist views.
That was Farage's MO, and I'm sure that the official 'clean-skin' Leave campaign were well aware of the advantages in having an out-rider campaign willing to exploit xenophobia and drive voters to their box on the ballot paper.

Sure .Wouldn’t think that anyone would disagree with that especially with the claim that Turkey would be joining the EU.

 

[The39thStep]

i don't suppose all racists are concerned with immigration, nor all those concerned with immigration are racists. but the overlap's quite noticeable.

Pickman’s Gordon Brown moment

 

[gosub]

But what ? I’ve never supported open borders.

Fair enough.

 

[brogdale]

Sure .Wouldn’t think that anyone would disagree with that especially with the claim that Turkey would be joining the EU.

It was one of the 80m Muslims from Turkey! brigade ranting outside Foyles that led me into my only toe-to-toe standup row with the racists during 2016.

 

[gosub]

Pickman’s Gordon Brown moment

which Gordon Brown moment? He had a few over different things over the years

 

[MrSki]

Sure .Wouldn’t think that anyone would disagree with that especially with the claim that Turkey would be joining the EU.

It wasn't just Turkey.

 

[gosub]

It was one of the 80m Muslims from Turkey! brigade ranting outside Foyles that led me into my only toe-to-toe standup row with the racists during 2016.

Most the recent Turkish influx is the more secular end running away from Erodgen