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99% of my landlords don't want Afro-Caribbeans or other troublemakers

That's a load of bollocks, quite frankly.

To you but to me that's precisely what has occured on this very thread. The hilarious thing is; it's the same shit over and over again. You'd imagine the most vocal were oblivious to the fact that they are preaching to the mostly converted. This is urban and despite some differences of opinion and outlook, we all want change for the better. We all loathe injustice and the perpetrators of injustice. There's more in common amongst us to unite, rather than divide. But no, the endless bitter recriminations, sniping, character assasinations and endless infighting remains.
 
No, you ruined this from post #30 onwards. It was so obvious where you were going to force this thread to go that mation had to ask you to cut it out before you could get what you wanted. But you persisted.
 
No, you ruined this from post #30 onwards. It was so obvious where you were going to force this thread to go that mation had to ask you to cut it out before you could get what you wanted. But you persisted.

And you played your part well, the incessant goading and one upmanship, picking every fucking sylable of people's posts to bits. Surely at this stage even you must get tired of your own schtick? Always looking to pick a fight with someone. You've been at me for years, why is that, I wonder? Still you've got form, you even harrassed a mentally ill person from the drugs forum. You really are a despicable piece of work.
 
Think it's best you go away for a bit krtek. Your behaviour on this thread - even after being asked nicely to desist - has been appalling. Do you realise that you've smeared a whole range of posters as being, at best, soft on racism, and at worst, of being racists. Because they don't agree with your simplistic view of racism. You probably don't know that this is what you've done though so habitual has this behaviour become to you.

If you are unable to put the racist acts that you and others are railing at into some wider social or political context, if you are unable to see how and why racism is produced and maintained, then all you're doing with your moral condemnation of racism is pretty meaningless. But you think it somehow allows you to smear others who both condemn racism in the way you do and demand others do, and also try to go a bit deeper to ask why they happened rather than just shouting that they are bad things, as racists. What sort of person does that? What sort of logic demands that you do this?
 
What do you call a gang of white teens who racially abuse my wife?

Wankers, same as I call any racist (if I don't use something stronger).

Tell me how class comes into that, please.

Why are the "gang of white teens" racist? Is their racism a product of their environment, or is it genetically determined?

Everything I've experienced, as well as everything I've read, tells me it's the former, not the latter. That being the case, of course class is implicated, and here's how:
From the time you're born, you're socialised (or to use the old-fashioned term, "raised") to conform to certain social and societal norms.
One of those norms is an instilled belief that hierarchical relations are normal, that "adults" are better than "children; that people from my side of the Thames are better than people from the other side; that an "Englishman" is better than a "Welshman", for example. The problem with this seemingly natural belief in hierarchical relations is that it is predicated on a presumption of asymmetry - that A is "better than" B, and that B is "worse than" A - that has no basis in fact.
So there's instance number one of class being involved - racism, the othering of others "who are not like me", is of a piece with a wider set of practices (such as sexism) predicated on presumptions of superiority. It can't actually exist outside of that set of hierarchical human relations, whether your society is "primitive" or "modern".

A lot of people never properly take on board that such a belief/set of beliefs is implicated in furthering the "divide and rule" strategy of the powerful, or that not questioning such a belief also does so. The question we then need to ask is cui bono - who benefits?
It's not particularly difficult to determine that those who benefit most from "divide and rule" are also those with the most power to perpetuate such a strategy. If you can convince people to hate those in the same social stratum as themselves for being a different colour; following a different religion; eating different food; having a different accent; using a wheelchair, rather than investigating "who benefits?" from the perpetuation of such social tensions, then ruling those people is a lot easier.
So there's instance number two of class being involved - a concentration on racism rather than on what causes racism, misses the fact that there is a benefit derived from racism by those with power (over those with less power), in that some of the focus of people who have less power is directed sideways rather than upward.
 
the incessant goading and one upmanship, picking every fucking sylable of people's posts to bits. Surely at this stage even you must get tired of your own schtick? Always looking to pick a fight with someone.

I have no idea about the specifics of the argument in the background to this. Sometimes Butchers is right and highly astute, sometimes he is wrong and about as off beam as it is possible to get.

But the quoted passage hits the nail on the head, as has been put to him countless times.
 
Again, what do you call a gang of white teens who racially abuse my wife? Tell me how class comes into that, please.

Wow, you waited a whole nine minutes between your demands for an answer!

Ever consider that I might be attempting an explanation that'd take more than nine minutes to write?

:facepalm:
 
I have merely pointed out how these threads concerning the specific topic of racism are usually hijacked by earnest hectoring types who want to make it their own class struggle agenda.

krtek, the class analysis of racism and its origin is a thoroughly respectable, even mainstream approach to understanding that particular social phenomenon.
 
Im not sure coconut it a racist term tbh. I hear it all the time and the connotations I have got from it are that the person is acting 'white' and is very westernised and does not want anything to do with their parents background/culture.


How is that "not" racist. It's entirely predicated on the idea certain behaviours, tastes belong only to a specific racial group. Implying all blacks are the same, only whites do XYZ.
 
I have merely pointed out how these threads concerning the specific topic of racism are usually hijacked by earnest hectoring types who want to make it their own class struggle agenda.


I don't know nor care what decicated old beef you have with Revol or who ever but I think he makes sense. He's actually gone to some effort to make it pretty clear what he's saying. He's not talking about some hierarchical scale of oppression bullshit or denying racism has immediate effects across communities. But annalising it isolated from any wider perspective, class, in vs out groups, simple social power balances if you like, is wrongheaded and ultimately doomed.
 
if there were no landlords then there couldn't be any racist landlords so how the fuck can anyone try to divorce this story from an analysis of both race and class
 
krtek, the class analysis of racism and its origin is a thoroughly respectable, even mainstream approach to understanding that particular social phenomenon.
Listened to a really good interview on Doug Henwood's show with a US academic who wrote a book on this:

http://lbo-news.com/2013/02/15/fresh-audio-product-13/

http://www.amazon.com/Racecraft-Soul-Inequality-American-Life/dp/1844679942

Not read the book but did read a few article-length reviews because she made her case so well. Sure she and her writing partner aren't the only ones but I'm not very up on academic currents.
 
I have merely pointed out how these threads concerning the specific topic of racism are usually hijacked by earnest hectoring types who want to make it their own class struggle agenda.
The only ernest hectoring type hijacking this thread is you, you prick.
This thread is just typical of your behaviour, whining about bullying while smearing others.
 
Listened to a really good interview on Doug Henwood's show with a US academic who wrote a book on this:

http://lbo-news.com/2013/02/15/fresh-audio-product-13/

http://www.amazon.com/Racecraft-Soul-Inequality-American-Life/dp/1844679942

Not read the book but did read a few article-length reviews because she made her case so well. Sure she and her writing partner aren't the only ones but I'm not very up on academic currents.

Was a good listen that, interestingly though when she was talking about the lack of language to discuss inequality in itself, she appears to fall into that liberal trap of not locating this inequality in the dynamic of capitalism itself though maybe that is uncharitable, will look to get a copy of her book at some stage.
 
For me, the lesson of this investigation along with the recent survey about discomfort with the prospect of a BME PM (along lines of party political support) and other bits and pieces point to the fact that racism is still quite prevalent.

Obvious enough of course, yet thanks to reactionary doublethink bleating it's actually not as easy a case to advance and make stick as it may appear.

For some 30 years racists (conscious or subconcsiously) have only needed to invoke the PCGM card and / or accuse people of "closing down debate" in order to close down debate. It goes along with all that "some of my best friends..." shite and a real or imagined relative / in law who is not wholly UK caucasian.

IMO, anti-racists have often been too timid in calling this kind of thing out, to the point where it is often easier to make cases with racist elements than to challenge racism.
 
Here's some other people who think it's not only ok to try and put race in a wider political context but that's it necessary ( and this peice also touches on the 'coconut' stuff above):

The Fallacy of Racial Kinship Politics

Racial kinship politics stems from the ridiculous assumption that simply because a politician is Black he shares some "essential Black experience" that allows him to understand the condition of the Black community more viscerally and more easily attend to their political needs.

The assumptions stemming from racial kinship are the point where the amateurish nature of Black politics become most obvious.
...


The ultimate idiocy of racial kinship politics is that it empowers an elite Black Misleadership Class that protects its own class interests to the detriment of the majority of the Black masses. Some of these misleaders are actually veterans of civil rights struggles, which gives them license to confer “movement” bona fides upon rank politicians like Obama. Thus, Obama is permitted to code switch into Dr. King-like cadences with the most convincing pitch while protecting Wall Street Banks that economically raped the Black community during the subprime mortgage meltdown.

Furthermore, racial kinship politics assumes that all Blacks suffer from racism the same way. Moreover, it denies that many Blacks are willing enablers of the system that crushes the Black working class, and those on the margins.


Still can't see any response from letting agents or any organised reaction - am i missing them both, or is there really none? Two other pieces on reforms:


Theresa May's immigration bill is a valuable tool for racist landlords

Immigration checks will exclude ethnic minorities from renting
 
Wow, you waited a whole nine minutes between your demands for an answer!

Ever consider that I might be attempting an explanation that'd take more than nine minutes to write?

:facepalm:

Sorry. It's frustrating when the randoms attack. Sincere thanks for your detailed analysis. It is, of course, an opinion but I will try and figure out what you're actually saying. It's a bit wordy and I need time to digest it. I am not as erudite as the experts here on urban so it takes a while to sink in.
 
For me, the lesson of this investigation along with the recent survey about discomfort with the prospect of a BME PM (along lines of party political support) and other bits and pieces point to the fact that racism is still quite prevalent.

Obvious enough of course, yet thanks to reactionary doublethink bleating it's actually not as easy a case to advance and make stick as it may appear.

For some 30 years racists (conscious or subconcsiously) have only needed to invoke the PCGM card and / or accuse people of "closing down debate" in order to close down debate. It goes along with all that "some of my best friends..." shite and a real or imagined relative / in law who is not wholly UK caucasian.

IMO, anti-racists have often been too timid in calling this kind of thing out, to the point where it is often easier to make cases with racist elements than to challenge racism.
Can you give any examples of this last thing? Of anti-racists 'making cases with racist elements'.

I think you're wrong about anti-racists being too timid to challenge racism, i think you're even wrong that they have edged into racism themselves. That's a very serious charge that needs standing up.
 
Can you give any examples of this last thing? Of anti-racists 'making cases with racist elements'.

I think you're wrong about anti-racists being too timid to challenge racism, i think you're even wrong that they have edged into racism themselves. That's a very serious charge that needs standing up.

you've misunderstood and I perhaps could have been clearer. Those making cases with racist elements are not the anti racists.
 
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