911: What makes you suspicious - now with added extra poll option!

[taffboy gwyrdd]

editor: "Look! Lots of suitably qualified experts! Credible sources galore! Evidence everywhere!"

Speaking to one point - the collapse of towers 1 and 2. Having scanned all the documents, I find no mention of WTC 7. Thanks all the same though.

The collapse of towers 1 and 2 could well have been directly caused by the impacts and resulting fires. It never appeared otherwise to me at least.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

While recognising (happily) that this thread has been more sober than many on the subject I cant help but observe a degree of doublethink going on similar in a way to the anti PC mob.

It goes like this: Many U75ers are aware that moans about "political correctness" are often reactionary and founded on distortions. PC is a tool of the right used to denounce those who discern phenomena like racism.
They say we are "closing the debate" before the "debate" has begun.

It's like racism cant exist because to say it does is PC, and PC is bad.

The parallel is that when anyone raises legit questions and suspicions about the Official 911 conspiracy story, someone else will soon be along to scream that we are into lizards and holograms. Most of us arent. We are after more thorough answers about a gross crime against humanity than have been given by a government who uses 911 as a fundemental raison d'etre for it's imperialist activities.

I err towards the LIHOP school, but am far from satisfied.

Between the official conspiracy, LIHOP and MIHOP or a combination there is not evidence to sufficiently back up either. Hence the questions must keep bein asked. I'm prepared to believe the official account if the evidence is there. As our editor friend has shown, the official account of the collapse of towers 1 and 2 may well be the correct one.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

am far from satisfied.

Between the official conspiracy, LIHOP and MIHOP or a combination there is not evidence to sufficiently back up either. Hence the questions must keep bein asked.

Maybe it's because we like 'stories'. We like things to have a nice neat beginnings and ends, all wrapped up in a coherent, manageable packages with no self-contradictions, glaring omissions and unexplained 'awkward facts' jutting out all over the place and making it hard to swallow.

Many find the story we're told about what happened on 11th September 2001 a bit untidy, hence the questions. We're naturally inquisitive creatures.

Perhaps, then, it should be considered 'only natural' that anyone who asks questions regarding a well told story be confronted with incessant demands for an entirely speculative, fully comprehensive, finely detailed, 100% bullet-proof & peer reviewed alternative narrative to whatever pile of smooth yet steaming fiction was previously ingested before their questions are even accepted as valid points for discussion.

-

Personally, I could swear I saw the ghost of Edward Bernays in the smoke of those burning towers...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

While recognising (happily) that this thread has been more sober than many on the subject I cant help but observe a degree of doublethink going on similar in a way to the anti PC mob.

It goes like this: Many U75ers are aware that moans about "political correctness" are often reactionary and founded on distortions. PC is a tool of the right used to denounce those who discern phenomena like racism.
They say we are "closing the debate" before the "debate" has begun.

It's like racism cant exist because to say it does is PC, and PC is bad.

The parallel is that when anyone raises legit questions and suspicions about the Official 911 conspiracy story, someone else will soon be along to scream that we are into lizards and holograms. Most of us arent. We are after more thorough answers about a gross crime against humanity than have been given by a government who uses 911 as a fundemental raison d'etre for it's imperialist activities.

I err towards the LIHOP school, but am far from satisfied.

Between the official conspiracy, LIHOP and MIHOP or a combination there is not evidence to sufficiently back up either. Hence the questions must keep bein asked. I'm prepared to believe the official account if the evidence is there. As our editor friend has shown, the official account of the collapse of towers 1 and 2 may well be the correct one.

I think you're talking bollox. The reason why you get the reactions you do is because for the most part there is a long history of people coming on here with their "theories" and little evidence. When the majority of sane posters don't buy their "theories" hook line and sinker we get called adherents to the official narrative, conformists, government apologists etc fucking etc. Post your "suspicions" with actual fucking evidence more often than not (and by you I mean the whole gang not just you as a poster) and people on here will take a reasoned interest.

 

[TeeJay]

...(anyone ever even heard of box-cutters before 911?)...

I don't know what planet you were living on:

 

[editor]

Speaking to one point - the collapse of towers 1 and 2. Having scanned all the documents, I find no mention of WTC 7.

Err, try reading the link I'd already posted up. Several times.

 

[WouldBe]

It involved the academic paper by Steve Jones Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?.

Is this the stellar specialist again?

From the link

while reacting. Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen and so the reaction cannot be smothered, even with water

This is bollocks. Aluminium powder is highly reactive. If you pour water onto thermite the aluminium will react preferentially with the water and therefore no molten iron will be produced.

Jazz if you needed a heart operation would you let an orthopedic surgeon do it or would you prefer a surgeon who specialises in heart surgery?

Why do you accept the findings of a 'scientist' that specialises in stellar reactions over the findings of structural engineers?

 

[pk]

Is this the stellar specialist again?

Why do you accept the findings of a 'scientist' that specialises in stellar reactions over the findings of structural engineers?

Looking for actual evidence? From Jazzz?

Wish upon a star, mate.

 

[neilh]

Talking of which, are you missing your nutjob chum, Joe Vialls?

sounds to me like you're the one who's missing that idiot most, you certainly seem to be the one who brings up his name most these days.

 

[editor]

sounds to me like you're the one who's missing that idiot most, you certainly seem to be the one who brings up his name most these days.

Really? So how many times have I mentioned him in, say, the last month then?

 

[editor]

This is bollocks. Aluminium powder is highly reactive. If you pour water onto thermite the aluminium will react preferentially with the water and therefore no molten iron will be produced.

Jazz if you needed a heart operation would you let an orthopedic surgeon do it or would you prefer a surgeon who specialises in heart surgery?

Why do you accept the findings of a 'scientist' that specialises in stellar reactions over the findings of structural engineers?

Looking forward to Jazzz's response!

 

[neilh]

Really? So how many times have I mentioned him in, say, the last month then?

well you seem to think jazzz is missing him, despite him not mentioning him in the past month. searching for vialls by post, 9 of your posts come up before reaching one of jazzz's.

 

[neilh]

Looking forward to Jazzz's response!

i wouldn't get too hopeful.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Fuck it, I can't be arsed with this thread; it'll be another 18 pages of people going; "answer the question/post up evidence" and the conspiraloons coming up with yet more evasion and bollox.

*unsubscribes from thread*

 

[editor]

well you seem to think jazzz is missing him, despite him not mentioning him in the past month.

Really worthwhile point you've made there, then. Thanks for that!

PS I asked Jazzz a question about Vialls.

 

[neilh]

Really worthwhile point you've made there, then. Thanks for that!

wait a minute, it was you who brought the guy up, said that jazzz was missing him, and asked us a question about you referring to him.

 

[editor]

wait a minute, it was you who brought the guy up, said that jazzz was missing him, and asked us a question about you referring to him.

Nope. I asked Jazzz if he was missing Vialls - the reason being because we were discussing conspiracy evidence and sources, and for quite a while he was one of Jazzz's main 'inspirations'.

 

[Rentonite]

it is the Protesting of (fill in the blank) that is the true issue with the 911 conspiraloons.
the whole "America Bad" mind set is so powerful that rationality, logic, humanity, All evaporate.
By not accepting that the muslim terrorists did what they did they can protest America (it gives them self worth)
Just like the skinheads claiming the Holocoust did not happen.
it is the same thing.

I know I know ............
I just couldnt stop my self from interjecting
please continue

 

[neilh]

Nope. I asked Jazzz if he was missing Vialls - the reason being because we were discussing conspiracy evidence and sources, and for quite a while he was one of Jazzz's main 'inspirations'.

yeah, sorry, you're right, you did ask him as oppose to saying he missed him; still seems like a bit needless for him to be brought into the whole thing IMO, but that's up to you if you'd rather bring the discussion round to that wee paranoid antisemite.

 

[neilh]

it is the Protesting of (fill in the blank) that is the true issue with the 911 conspiraloons.
the whole "America Bad" mind set is so powerful that rationality, logic, humanity, All evaporate.
By not accepting that the muslim terrorists did what they did they can protest America (it gives them self worth)
Just like the skinheads claiming the Holocoust did not happen.
it is the same thing.

I know I know ............
I just couldnt stop my self from interjecting
please continue

i tend to think that most folk who fall into your category of protesters against america hate or protest against the US cos of things the US has done, rather than trying to come up with things they've done to justify an irrational anti-US hatred.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

it is the Protesting of (fill in the blank) that is the true issue with the 911 conspiraloons.
the whole "America Bad" mind set is so powerful that rationality, logic, humanity, All evaporate.
By not accepting that the muslim terrorists did what they did they can protest America (it gives them self worth)
Just like the skinheads claiming the Holocoust did not happen.
it is the same thing.

I know I know ............
I just couldnt stop my self from interjecting
please continue

I, and many others who have questions about the official story, have little doubt that muslim terrorists were largly responsible. That in no way ends the fishiness.

 

[editor]

That in no way ends the fishiness.

Specifically, what 'fishiness', please?

Oh, and there's a prog on Ch5 tonight about the 9/11 flight that crashed/got shot down/was hit by alien missiles/vanished into the ether.

 

[pk]

Just like the skinheads claiming the Holocoust did not happen.

Just like an American claiming the far more recent Holocaust in Fallujah didn't happen...

All those raped and murdered women and children, all for Uncle Sam's boys....

Anyone you know involved in that Rentashite?

Here's hoping they fly home zipped up in a bodybag if you do.

 

[editor]

Oh, and there's a prog on Ch5 tonight about the 9/11 flight that crashed/got shot down/was hit by alien missiles/vanished into the ether.

Well, that was interesting, if a litle over-sentimental.

So Sparticus, what did you think of it?

I assume a 'truth-seeker' like you must have watched it because , as you said, no one "genuinely interested" in "9/11 truth" would have missed an opportunity to see a film stuffed full of direct eye witness testimony.

After hearing the first hand evidence from the people on the ground who spoke to their loved ones on Flight 93 and I am in abslutely no doubt that the plane was indeed hijacked by terrorists.

The relatives discussed at considerable length the conversations they had with their loved ones, so that disgusting conspirayarn that the calls were somehow all faked by an instant CIA Mike Yarwood Team can be safely laughed out of town.

I've even lost my slight suspicions that the plane might have been shot down as the conversations from the relatives (who have also heard the last ten minutes of the cockpit tapes) were entirely consistent with the story of the passengers trying to overpower a suicidal pilot.

There was also eye witness testimony from the crew of a passing light aircraft and an eye witness account from someone on the ground who saw the plane crash all of which fits with the general story.

 

[squeegee]

"There was somewhere between 30 and 55 minutes after Flight 93 was "suspect" to intercept it. The current official story is that 3 F-16 fighters had been scrambled at 9:24AM and were airborne over Washington D.C. by 9:40AM. AWACS and a Tanker were scrambled also.

prosecution?

Answer: As a condition of employment Contollers are required to have a "secret" security clearance rating. As a civilian air traffic controller you are bound to know military flight information that should remain secret. This makes perfect sense due to the fact that the FBI is conducting a Criminal Investigation into the crash. Witnesses may also be prohibited from talking to the press regarding the incident.

<cut and paste snip>

 

[editor]

"There was somewhere between 30 and 55 minutes after Flight 93 was "suspect" to intercept it. The current official story is that 3 F-16 fighters had been scrambled at 9:24AM and were airborne over Washington D.C. by 9:40AM. AWACS and a Tanker were scrambled also.

Please don't post up swathes of cut and paste from sites without adding any comment of your own.

Almost all of the eye witness accounts on that site (well that ones that are attributed) match the description of events as given by passengers.

If it was shot down, why weren't all the eye witnesses reporting a huge trail of smoke across the sky as the aircraft plummeted to the earth?
Why weren't there bits of aircraft scattered miles around?
Why did no one notice the distinctive shape fighters roaring away or the trail of their missiles - which would be pretty hard to miss in a perfect blue sky?
And how come none of the passengers reported seeing a jet?
And what about the passengers invading the cabin. Was that just a coincidence?

What's your theory of what (ahem) really happened, then, because posting up criticially-unchallenged chunks of selective cut and paste from agenda-laden sites isn't much use to anyone.

Or are you just, y'know, "asking questions?

 

[Rentonite]

Just like an American claiming the far more recent Holocaust in Fallujah didn't happen...

All those raped and murdered women and children, all for Uncle Sam's boys....

Anyone you know involved in that Rentashite?

Here's hoping they fly home zipped up in a bodybag if you do.

What a shallow, hateful thing to say,........
Well, since ya wanna go fight in the war against the U.S. why dont you go?
hop a flight to Beruit then Bagdad,
it should be easy to find some insurgents
I am shure they have a vest that will fit ya.
you should go, hitting that switch is the only thing that will make you feel better.
once they give it to you make shure you practice first....................

 

[gurrier]

I've even lost my slight suspicions that the plane might have been shot down as the conversations from the relatives (who have also heard the last ten minutes of the cockpit tapes) were entirely consistent with the story of the passengers trying to overpower a suicidal pilot.

There was also eye witness testimony from the crew of a passing light aircraft and an eye witness account from someone on the ground who saw the plane crash all of which fits with the general story.

Hmmm. I don't know about that - I didn't see the show but I don't think that either of these things rules out the possibility that flight 93 was shot down. In support of this possibility, a US Air force officer did actually claim on a chat-show that he had ordered the plane to be shot down IIRC.

I think it is still highly possible that it was shot down, but on the other hand, I've no problem with it and I don't really care one way or the other. It would make sense from all sorts of points of view for them not to tell the relatives that they had shot down the plane if they did and to claim that it was the heroic struggle of the passengers that had done it - for one thing it allows the relatives to imagine their lost ones as heroic - and more importantly from the gov's point of view, I can only imagine the litigation and the loonspuddery that would be sparked by an admission that they did shoot down flight 93. "rogue cia dissident was passenger on plane - plane contained entire cia files for the universe, etc"

 

[editor]

Hmmm. I don't know about that - I didn't see the show but I don't think that either of these things rules out the possibility that flight 93 was shot down.

To be honest, I'd always thought it a possiblity because - unlike the bonkers conspiraloon shite posted here - there would actually be:
(a) a plausible reason for shooting it down and
(b) a plausible reason to cover it up

But there simply isn't a shred of hard evidence to suggest it actually was shot down: according to almost all eye witness reports, the plane was intact when it hit the ground, great big chunks weren't missing and there wasn't the in-air ball of flame and smoke trail you'd expect to see if a large jet had been hit by a missile.

Moreover, none of the passengers reported seeing a jet and I would have thought that flying up close to take a look would have been an obvious first step for fighter jets.

According to the relatives who have heard the last minutes of the voice recorder - and the phone calls preceeding it- the story of the passengers trying to overpower the pilot seems entirely plausible. Whether they were successful in their actions, or that the pilot simply lost control/bottled it/shat himself/screwed up is open to interpretation, however.

After reading all the half baked, manipulative bullshit from conspiraloons here, it was really refreshing to hear the first hand testimony from those who spoke to loved ones on the plane, the Verizon phone operator and to hear some of the air traffic tapes.

 

[WouldBe]

I would have liked to watch that program but can't get channel 5 here.

Maybe it's part of the conspiracy