911: What makes you suspicious - now with added extra poll option!

[sparticus]

If you will shut up about it and focus on the evidence, I will. After all if you were genuinely interested either in the evidence or whether there is interest in 9/11 truth, you would have attended the event in Brixton hosted by the local Green Party and judged for yourself. The offer of a free DVD is still btw

Sept 11 2005, Film screening of Loose Change held at Project 142. Some details here

 

[Jazzz]

Bless.

There may well be issues to be uncovered around 9/11, but it certainly won't be any of those DVD-flogging conspiraspuds coming up with the answers...

Yet you are paving the way for them being right. I note you haven't acknowledged the rapid binning of the Steve Jones thread. Where does the physics professor fit into your scheme? Is he, for example, a 'conspiraspud'? Or is he and his paper denouncing the theory of fire-contributed collapse of the WTC part of the 'good' 9-11 truth movement which is no longer comprised of book-flogging conspiraspuds? Or did you even know who he is?

 

[neilh]

good to see this thread going longer than usual with actual discussion, going 5 or 6 pages before the inevitable jazz vs editor back n forth thing which i think just puts folk wi all views off.
like usual, though, plenty of mentions of stuff like aliens, tin foil hats, conspiraloons, soham, lizards etc from folk sceptical about alternative theories.

as for the use of the word "disinformation" in post 97, i think youve misunderstood the word as far as i'm aware - disinformation would suggest it wasn't put out/came up with by "conspiraloons" but by the authorities to put folk off the scent, confuse folk, make them lose trust in "conspiraloons" etc, if i've got the meaning of the word correct.

 

[Jazzz]

good to see this thread going longer than usual with actual discussion, going 5 or 6 pages before the inevitable jazz vs editor back n forth thing which i think just puts folk wi all views off.

It's not inevitable neilh. I do, and will try, to avoid it. Perhaps editor will do the same?

 

[editor]

I note you haven't acknowledged the rapid binning of the Steve Jones thread.

Seeing as I'm not responsible for binning it, I can't see what I'm supposed to say about it. Take it up with FM.

So what's so special about this one professor that you choose to completely ignore the opinions of hundreds of other equally - and some far more qualified - experts?

 

[editor]

After all if you were genuinely interested either in the evidence or whether there is interest in 9/11 truth, you would have attended the event in Brixton hosted by the local Green Party and judged for yourself.

Right. So the only place I could find "9/11 truth" (whatever that is) was at this meeting and because I had something more important to do that day, that proves that I'm not interested in the evidence, yes?

What utterly idiotic logic.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

So what's so special about this one professor that you choose to completely ignore the opinions of hundreds of other equally - and some far more qualified - experts?

Which ones?

 

[sparticus]

Right. So the only place I could find "9/11 truth" (whatever that is) was at this meeting and because I had something more important to do that day, that proves that I'm not interested in the evidence, yes?

What utterly idiotic logic.

No but given the hours you invest in 'debunking' the 9/11 truth movement, I would have thought you would take up my often repeated offer of a free DVD or 2. That's why assume you are not interested in the evidence

 

[editor]

Which ones?

Pick any one of the zillions who aren't subscribing to the (ahem) 'alternative' theories being spouted here...

 

[editor]

No but given the hours you invest in 'debunking' the 9/11 truth movement, I would have thought you would take up my often repeated offer of a free DVD or 2. That's why assume you are not interested in the evidence

What credible, peer reviewed evidence is contained in those DVDs that hasn't been seen elsewhere please?

Not much point me wasting my time watching a load of repeats or listening to unqualified, evidence-free conspiraloons waffling on about their pet subject, is there?

Are there any experts countering the claims on these DVDs or is it a one-way propaganda onslaught for tinfoil fans?

 

[Jazzz]

Right. So the only place I could find "9/11 truth" (whatever that is) was at this meeting and because I had something more important to do that day, that proves that I'm not interested in the evidence, yes?

What utterly idiotic logic.

err, that was a response to pk by sparticus. Interestingly pk has posted what appears a full-on declaration of MIHOP earlier in the thread and has then gone on to abuse the truth movement. Curious. I hope that pk can put board posturing to one side and post according to his conscience, if he doesn't, well he's helping the people he accuses get away with it. I couldn't do that, no matter what reputation I wanted to maintain. Maybe pk has a conscience too.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

You'd think that Santa might have finally brought them some credible evidence, but it looks like, once again, there was nowt in his sack apart from some more dodgy DVDs!

It is indeed. We are still after credible evidence as to why the flight which is purported to have hit the Pentegon flew around over Washington, probably the most heavily air defended city on the planet, for so long without being challenged.

We could also do with credible evidence that a guy who was a standing joke in pilot school on tiny planes carried out some incredible manouveres in an airliner a matter of weeks later.

Credible evidence regarding the fate of the black boxes and why so much evidence was shipped of for scrap ASAP would be nice too.

Some credible evidence of how a steel frame building collapased in a demolition style fashion without even being hit by a plane (building 7) would be helpful. I have seen efforts to explain the latter, but they arent especially convincing.

These are all just off the top of the head, without any need to refer to lizards or operation Northwood (showing a precedent for the US conspiring against their own people).

There are dozens of questions the official conspiricasists have failed to answer adequately. They dont appear to be in a hurry to do so.

Ive said it before, I seem to need to say it again: No conspiricist can adequately back up their case. In many instances that goes for the official conspiracy too.

I believe islamic fundementalist terrorists were involved (though as someone else said, there aint a ton of evidence even for that). That does not equate with buying the entire official conspiracy theory.

 

[pk]

err, that was a response to pk by sparticus. Interestingly pk has posted what appears a full-on declaration of MIHOP earlier in the thread and has then gone on to abuse the truth movement. Curious. I hope that pk can put board posturing to one side and post according to his conscience, if he doesn't, well he's helping the people he accuses get away with it. I couldn't do that, no matter what reputation I wanted to maintain. Maybe pk has a conscience too.

The truth movement?

Holograms and lizards?

Fuck off.

Just because I think Bush is a big enough cunt to have blown up certain buildings to destroy evidence - which may or may not have been an aspect of regular security procedures, certainly many military facilities will have had a built in destruct mechanism in case of invasion - doesn't mean to say I'm about to swallow any of YOUR Huntley Is Innocent! bullshit, that you swore was the truth at the time... plus you're just crap at providing evidence.

Any interest or nagging doubts I might have about aspects of the 9/11 attacks have fuck all to do with you - I don't trust you, and I certainly don't trust the anti-Semitic purple-clad cunt you call David Icke.

Hope that clears that up.

You really don't know shit do you? You don't know how many meetings I have been involved in or their attendence. I would prove you wrong if I could be arsed, but I can't.

Another thing you can't seem to do is hide your ID.... pretty naive and stupid idea considering your allegations against the worlds most brutal superpower...

 

[Jazzz]

"Any interest or nagging doubts I might have about aspects of the 9/11 attacks have fuck all to do with you - I don't trust you, and I certainly don't trust the anti-Semitic purple-clad cunt you call David Icke.

Hope that clears that up."

Not really, because I have only asked you support the aims of the 9-11 truth movement which is to establish the truth about 9-11. That doesn't mean you need believe in lizards, or believe that holographic planes were employed on 9-11 - few do. You need trust neither me nor David Icke. Nor anyone. Except perhaps your own conscience. Clearly you do have some pretty big doubts going on. Why are you working against your own cause? I am puzzled by this.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

Pick any one of the zillions who aren't subscribing to the (ahem) 'alternative' theories being spouted here...

Can you give me a couple of names from these "zillions"?

 

[Jazzz]

Can you give me a couple of names from these "zillions"?

Together with their peer-reviewed work, of course

 

[snadge]

"cracks open another beer, lights spliff"

 

[TAE]

I think the United States does not exist. I believe the US is a 1984-type fictional country. Prove me wrong.

 

[pk]

Why are you working against your own cause? I am puzzled by this.

I'm not.

I'm working against yours.

As I've said to you before - you are to truth what Harold Shipman was to Help The Aged.

 

[editor]

These are all just off the top of the head, without any need to refer to lizards or operation Northwood (showing a precedent for the US conspiring against their own people).

FFS. Operation Northwoods was dreamt up over forty years ago by a different government and a different military with a different president with different aims when the world was an entirely different place and - most importantly of all - IT NEVER HAPPENED! It was just one of the many barking plans dreamt up by military types.

Now please explain what relevance this total non-event has to 9/11 conspiracies, please.

 

[editor]

Can you give me a couple of names from these "zillions"?

Try doing some research for a change. You've made of fool of yourself enough times in this thread with your half-baked claims.

 

[editor]

I believe islamic fundementalist terrorists were involved (though as someone else said, there aint a ton of evidence even for that). That does not equate with buying the entire official conspiracy theory.

So let's start with your theory and see how it stands up.

Or are you "just asking questions"?

 

[editor]

Maybe pk has a conscience too.

maybe he should read this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=5&c=y

 

[Jazzz]

And your criticism of the many refutations of the Popular Mechanics article - which you have already linked to - is?

 

[editor]

And your criticism of the many refutations of the Popular Mechanics article - which you have already linked to - is?

And your actual, real world, hard evidence for any of your various crackpot theories is?

That site is infinitely more credible than the laughable garbage you regularly link to.

Talking of which, are you missing your nutjob chum, Joe Vialls?

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

Try doing some research for a change. You've made of fool of yourself enough times in this thread with your half-baked claims.

My "half baked claim" consists of 9 of the 19 men that the US g'ment allege murdered thousands of citizens were alive and well and interviewed by the telegraph.

As I have pointed out, this was erroneous. Only eight are alive and well, the 9th died prior to 911 and only four were interviewed by the telegraph, (and one by the BBC).

So, back to the point...where's these zillions of experts? I cant find any hard evidence to back up your US g'ment conspiracy theory - it was bin-laden wot dun it, with box-cutters (anyone ever even heard of box-cutters before 911?), from a cave because he hates our freedoms.

 

[pk]

Anyone fancy taking a guess who Grassy Knollington is?



http://www.jacobsm.com/grassy.gif

 

[editor]

My "half baked claim" consists of 9 of the 19 men that the US g'ment allege murdered thousands of citizens were alive and well and interviewed by the telegraph.

You claimed that "half of the suspects are alive and well and have been interviewed by the Telegraph." That was utter tosh. if I hadn't have pulled you up on it, you'd no doubt go on repeating it.

And if you can't be arsed to look up any of the reports on 9/11 from the multitude of construction engineers, accident investigators, fire chiefs, engineers, architects etc, then don't expect me to go looking for you.

Ah, what the heck. I'm feeling generous:
http://enr.construction.com/news/buildings/archives/041021.asp
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3354
http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20021025b.asp
http://enr.construction.com/news/buildings/archives/040119.asp
http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20021209g.asp
http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtcreport.htm
http://www.archrecord.com/InTheCause/0402FDNY/fdny.asp
http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/AR/20020110r.asp
www.asce.org/emerg_document_pub.cfm
http://www.architectureweek.com/2001/1024/news_2-1.html

Look! Lots of suitably qualified experts! Credible sources galore! Evidence everywhere!

 

[editor]

Anyone fancy taking a guess who Grassy Knollington is?
http://www.jacobsm.com/grassy.gif

Tee hee! Priceless stuff!

I think I recognise the character too!

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

FFS. Operation Northwoods was dreamt up over forty years ago by a different government and a different military with a different president with different aims when the world was an entirely different place and - most importantly of all - IT NEVER HAPPENED! It was just one of the many barking plans dreamt up by military types.

Now please explain what relevance this total non-event has to 9/11 conspiracies, please.

The central nature of the military industrial complex has not changed much. If anything the tentacles have spread. The lenths to which secret services will o in black ops hasnt changed either.

The existence of the plan proves nothing beyond the potential for the state (in this case the US) to conspire against it's own people (like the Russians did in the moscow apartment bombings for example).

Besides which, my point was that one doesnt need to refer to Northwoods to have suspicions.