14th November Movement for Left Unity

[butchersapron]

the only reason people dont go to meetings is cos of how they are run??!! What utter, utter, anti-materialist drivel.

People dont go to meetings cos they dont think they will achieve anything, because unions have been emasculated. And that didnt happen because they had too many motions. Fer gawds sake man, when did you become such an idealist?

And because of the people who do go, what they do and the culture that they have built up. Shouting our day will come isn't really an answer to how this gap arose and what sustains it.

 

[belboid]

Shouting our day will come isn't really an answer to how this gap arose and what sustains it.

good thing no one is saying that

 

[butchersapron]

good thing no one is saying that

You argued the spaces and problemns will fill out once the processes and motion have power - didn't you?

Me go chippy/watch football now - back half time.

 

[belboid]

You argued the spaces and problemns will fill out once the processes and motion have power - didn't you?

Me go chippy/watch football now - back half time.

once the [relevant organisation] has power, not the motions.

 

[ska invita]

I note it's a motion, who from?

I would guess from Kate Hudson, who recently put out these books

West European social democracy has started to face growing electoral challenge from a new European left--regaining and expanding a political space occupied previously by communist parties. This book argues that no analysis of the pattern of European politics into the new millennium can be complete without taking this developing force into account. It charts the re-emergence and transformation of communist and former communist parties in Europe since 1989.

and this

More clues:
Reconfiguring the European Left: Where do Britain and Ireland come into the picture?
Speakers: Kate Hudson and Andrew Burgin of Left Unity

Info: http://leftforum.net/

Why specify Europe? Really?

Again a total guess, but maybe either a policy to throw around at the forthcoming EU elections (though I doubt LU are putting forward MEPs), or in anticipation of the 2017 EU referendum? Or just in recognition of the resurgent left in europe and tying in whats in those books

 

[J Ed]

I would guess from Kate Hudson, who recently put out these books

and this

More clues:
Reconfiguring the European Left: Where do Britain and Ireland come into the picture?
Speakers: Kate Hudson and Andrew Burgin of Left Unity

Info: http://leftforum.net/

Again a total guess, but maybe either a policy to throw around at the forthcoming EU elections (though I doubt LU are putting forward MEPs), or in anticipation of the 2017 EU referendum? Or just in recognition of the resurgent left in europe and tying in whats in those books

I find it all very strange since at least the Izquierda Unida seems to be moving towards a more Eurosceptic position and although this is anecdotal most left-wing people in Spain that I've spoken to about the subject are increasingly anti-EU for obvious reasons. Aren't the Front de Gauche anti-EU as well?

 

[butchersapron]

I would guess from Kate Hudson, who recently put out these books

and this

More clues:
Reconfiguring the European Left: Where do Britain and Ireland come into the picture?
Speakers: Kate Hudson and Andrew Burgin of Left Unity

Info: http://leftforum.net/

Again a total guess, but maybe either a policy to throw around at the forthcoming EU elections (though I doubt LU are putting forward MEPs), or in anticipation of the 2017 EU referendum? Or just in recognition of the resurgent left in europe and tying in whats in those books

She's a fucking tankie. It's important to known who these people are. And as noted earlier, it's simply a shit across TUSC's bows. Pathetic.

edit: and there is no 2017 eu referendum. If there were and LU are concentrating on it at all - never mind in 2014 - then fucking hell.

 

[butchersapron]

once the [relevant organisation] has power, not the motions.

Eh?

Barca are boring boring

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It looks like a "Communist Platform", ie CPGB/Weekly Worker, motion to me. The language is too left wing to belong to the fluffy leadership.

 

[rekil]

AND A TRIANGLE BASED PYRAMID - THE WORST KIND!!!

STOP BEING A SHEEPLE SHILL FOR THE ILLUMINATI AND INVESTIGATE WTC BUILDING 7, THAT'S WHERE ALL THIS BS STARTED!!

STAND UP TO THE NWO, DON'T BELIEVE THE LIES OF THE ZIONIST MEDIA!

For the proper effect, you need a sig with a huge pic and loads of links and Ron Paul quotes and BUY BITCOIN!!!

 

[redsquirrel]

the only reason people dont go to meetings is cos of how they are run??!! What utter, utter, anti-materialist drivel.

I certainly think that the fact that they never start/finish on time, don't get to the point quick enough and just generally are not very well run doesn't help.

 

[frogwoman]

Also, meetings sort of remind people of work

 

[frogwoman]

Interminable jargon about motions rather than active participation tends to really put me off tbh

 

[butchersapron]

Interminable jargon about motions rather than active participation tends to really put me off tbh

Fuck off, it's just because they mean nothing. NOTHING.

 

[frogwoman]

Also why does it have to be one or the other why people don't go. I remember sitting in various SP/union type things and being bored to tears. People could both think they are boring and interminable and think they're ineffective?

 

[butchersapron]

Or that the latter might be a cause of the former and vice versa.

 

[chilango]

It's the same as when we did jazz hands innit?

Liturgical ritual to keep the priests in control.

 

[butchersapron]

It's the same as when we did jazz hands innit?

Liturgical ritual to keep the priests in control.

And the pagans out - or they came come in through a process that the priests control - oh for a vernacular bible in these times

 

[butchersapron]

It's the same as when we did jazz hands innit?

Liturgical ritual to keep the priests in control.

Don't 'we' me please here mate!

 

[chilango]

Don't 'we' me please here mate!

Heh.

I meant "did" as in discussed.

Even I never actually did them.

 

[emanymton]

Also, meetings sort of remind people of work

That is the second time this has been said and I don't get it at all, it is nothing like work.

I don't really think the use of motions or not is an issue. Let's be honest does anyone think people would suddenly be beating a path to the unions and the left if they abandoned motions?

 

[butchersapron]

That is the second time this has been said and I don't get it at all, it is nothing like work.

I don't really think the use of motions or not is an issue. Let's be honest does anyone think people would suddenly be beating a path to the unions and the left if they abandoned motions?

Wtf?

 

[Red Cat]

That is the second time this has been said and I don't get it at all, it is nothing like work.

I disagree. chilango's point that it's more like work than play is really interesting. Generally, I reckon that's a pretty good measure of whether something comes from above or below.

 

[emanymton]

I disagree. chilango's point that it's more like work than play is really interesting. Generally, I reckon that's a pretty good measure of whether something comes from above or below.

Some of you must have very different jobs to me then. Although I get the point about if feeling lonely keep a bit of a choir, but it is nothing like work in my opinion.

 

[emanymton]

Wtf?

Which bit?

 

[butchersapron]

Which bit?

The bit after let's be honest...

 

[belboid]

I disagree. chilango's point that it's more like work than play is really interesting. Generally, I reckon that's a pretty good measure of whether something comes from above or below.

that's a pretty silly measure. Unions were set up from below, the form the meetings took were a reflection of how things worked at that time, and of the importance workers placed upon them. Therefore they were formal, and often 'businesslike' - because people wanted to get things done. It doesn't mean they ere 'top down'

 

[Red Cat]

that's a pretty silly measure. Unions were set up from below, the form the meetings took were a reflection of how things worked at that time, and of the importance workers placed upon them. Therefore they were formal, and often 'businesslike' - because people wanted to get things done. It doesn't mean they ere 'top down'

Silly old me.

I was talking about from above or below in the sense of what is happening right now in the meeting, not whether an organisation could be said to have been from below or above historically, or why those processes developed. Perhaps there is always a top down-ess that is created when processes become formalised.

 

[chilango]

Unions *might* have to maintain a certain degree of formal proceduralism given the role they play in capitalism at the moment. Whether that role is the right one is open to debate. However it doesn't follow that a formation such as LU should mimic such proceduralism.

 

[belboid]

Silly old me.

I was talking about from above or below in the sense of what is happening right now in the meeting, not whether an organisation could be said to have been from below or above historically, or why those processes developed. Perhaps there is always a top down-ess that is created when processes become formalised.

meaningless