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Your opinions of co-location of IAPT staff in Jobcentres

Fuck me the more you look at the aims and the "Organisations" driving this the worse it becomes.

Innovation Unit

http://www.innovationunit.org/our-projects/projects/adult-mental-health-0

The Lambeth Living Well Collaborative is a group of service users, GPs, providers and commissioners dedicated to transforming Lambeth’s mental healthcare system. We are helping them to prove that co-production will work on a large scale and drastically improve outcomes for people with mental health problems, regardless of the severity of their condition.

The rest of the piece seams to suggest empowering the patient will eliminate the need for Secondary services.

http://www.innovationunit.org/blog/...sformation-lambeths-living-well-collaborative

As we have heard this week from others on the Innovation Unit blog, mental health is something that has a broad and often great impact on people’s lives. However, for years mental health services have been delivered through a medicalised model of support, where people are seen as patients and conditions and their relating ‘remedies’ are examined in isolation, rather than taking account of the wider impacts and opportunities within an individual’s life. Although there is vast evidence to support the need to ensure holistic forms of support when working with those who have mental health challenges, this often blinkered view of people is deeply engrained within the organisations and support offered.

For a few months now, we have been working with Lambeth PCT to help them to radically transform the model of support available to those with mental health challenges, to move away from the traditional model of a patient-service relationship to a model built by and from the core principles of co-production.

Words fail me tbf !
 
As we have heard this week from others on the Innovation Unit blog, mental health is something that has a broad and often great impact on people’s lives. However, for years mental health services have been delivered through a medicalised model of support, where people are seen as patients and conditions and their relating ‘remedies’ are examined in isolation, rather than taking account of the wider impacts and opportunities within an individual’s life. Although there is vast evidence to support the need to ensure holistic forms of support when working with those who have mental health challenges, this often blinkered view of people is deeply engrained within the organisations and support offered.

For a few months now, we have been working with Lambeth PCT to help them to radically transform the model of support available to those with mental health challenges, to move away from the traditional model of a patient-service relationship to a model built by and from the core principles of co-production.

Fucking hell.
 
Did you read this bit?

Our role also involves supporting the Collaborative to formulate policies that will better instigate the growth of co-production. We have co-designed a model to determine how commissioners can enable the delivery of co-productive services, with a focus on building capacity in primary care to prevent the move to secondary care. It addresses a variety of issues facing commissioners ranging from how to better connect with communities so you can identify opportunities and challenges within them, to how to better assess outcomes, and encourage providers to work differently and more collaboratively.

Or in normal speak calling the need for a secondary service (or any) referral as an OUTCOME failure.

Tell the straight out of Uni "therapists" failure will harm their career and outcomes must be achieved....

You then get the outcomes that support your theory for change and dropping of all other services whilst securing your funding. Where the patient fits in is unclear, where the patient gets help when it goes wrong is also unclear (as most of the big charities are either involved or don't give a fuck) and what happens to the patient is inevitable.

It's basically the Work Program model for Mental Health - Easy patients with easy outcomes = funding for more of the same. Those who need more help will be parked or forced out in a never ending circle of being blamed for not getting better and unable to access less and less help.

Whilst this thread started about the DWPs involvement - mental health like social care before it is fast becoming a Council funded issue. This whole Council, charity and other mix model for the future of mental health seam to have slipped us by and is far more scary.
 
Words fail me tbf !
whatever you do, don't ever medicalise mental health. That way people will start questioning the system society and culture around them. We can't have that.

Trying to explain to a GP that CBT isn't effective (in all cases - it's far from a one size fit's all treatment) is difficult enough; I can't imagine how that would go when trying to explain it to a Jobcentre adviser.
 
tbf, moving away from an overly medicalised model to a more social understanding is a good thing...not like this though

This seems more a case of appropriating the language for their own purposes - in this case, minimising or otherwise limiting resource-use.
This still won't even make a dent on the problems caused by closing SLAM's emergency clinic a few years back either, sadly.
 
whatever you do, don't ever medicalise mental health. That way people will start questioning the system society and culture around them. We can't have that.

Trying to explain to a GP that CBT isn't effective (in all cases - it's far from a one size fit's all treatment) is difficult enough; I can't imagine how that would go when trying to explain it to a Jobcentre adviser.

About 8 years ago I had to spend a very boring twenty minutes explaining the basics of how CBT worked to a GP at my surgery, as she was convinced that it was a panacea for all kinds of social ills, and that without changing social facts, changing the way you think about and react to stuff doesn't go far enough.
 
Tbh, the DWP had always had a hand in mental health with regards to claimants. The have a work psychology department which I imagine is just add useless as this idea. No douvt there to persuade people everything is down to their laziness.
 
Tbh, the DWP had always had a hand in mental health with regards to claimants. The have a work psychology department which I imagine is just add useless as this idea. No douvt there to persuade people everything is down to their laziness.
That's exactly what they're for. This whole thing of applying psychology to worklessness (which, in a more benign setting, would be admirable) originates with Professor Richard Layard's study. I don't know the study well enough to comment on its conclusions, but - as ever - what seems to be happening is that a technical study has been picked up by politicians as a useful justification for pursuing an agenda - dividing the poor into "deserving" and "undeserving" categories. "Undeserving" in this case being determined as someone who is unwilling to do anything (like undergo therapy) to change their situation. The fact that there are all kinds of problems with the idea of that therapy being mandatory, and delivered in close association with the DWP, is ignored: if someone refuses to participate, it can only be because they don't want to "get better."

Which feeds nicely into the populist myth that everyone who's on benefits chose to be there because it's living in the lap of luxury.
 
That's exactly what they're for. This whole thing of applying psychology to worklessness (which, in a more benign setting, would be admirable) originates with Professor Richard Layard's study. I don't know the study well enough to comment on its conclusions, but - as ever - what seems to be happening is that a technical study has been picked up by politicians as a useful justification for pursuing an agenda - dividing the poor into "deserving" and "undeserving" categories. "Undeserving" in this case being determined as someone who is unwilling to do anything (like undergo therapy) to change their situation. The fact that there are all kinds of problems with the idea of that therapy being mandatory, and delivered in close association with the DWP, is ignored: if someone refuses to participate, it can only be because they don't want to "get better."

Which feeds nicely into the populist myth that everyone who's on benefits chose to be there because it's living in the lap of luxury.

None of the academic-side stuff being helped by certain of those in positions of relative power (Sir Mansell Aylward/Arsewad, for example) constructing policy positions around disability and unemployment that make use of the outdated/antiquated/veritably Jurassic concept of "the sick role"we're sick and/or unemployed because we derive benefit from it! :facepalm:
 
CIgYhv5WwAAFklk.jpg:large
 
This may be of interest if you'd like to meet and talk to psychologists about what you think campaign priorities should be:

Psychologists Against Austerity Strategy Day Register here: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/paa-strategy-day-tickets-17425481083

Event Description
Want to help shape the future direction of Psychologists Against Austerity? Come to our strategy day, where we'll assess our sucesses and weaknesses so far, and plan what kind of organisation we want to be in the future.


WHEN
Sunday, 5 July 2015 from 11:00 to 15:00 (BST)
WHERE
London - UCL Roberts Building, Room 110. Torrington Place. London WC1E 7JE GB
 
Why CBT is falling out of favour - http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/03/why-cbt-is-falling-out-of-favour-oliver-burkeman

Everybody loves cognitive behavioural therapy. It’s the no-nonsense, quick and relatively cheap approach to mental suffering – with none of that Freudian bollocks, and plenty of scientific backing. So it was unsettling to learn, from a paper in the journal Psychological Bulletin, that it seems to be getting less effective over time. After analysing 70 studies conducted between 1977 and 2014, researchers Tom Johnsen and Oddgeir Friborg concluded that CBT is roughly half as effective in treating depression as it used to be.

What’s going on? One theory is that, as any therapy grows more popular, the proportion of inexperienced or incompetent therapists grows bigger. But the paper raises a more intriguing idea: the placebo effect. The early publicity around CBT made it seem a miracle cure, so maybe it functioned like one for a while. These days, by contrast, the chances are you know someone who’s tried CBT and didn’t miraculously become perfectly happy for ever. Our expectations have become more realistic, so effectiveness has fallen, too. Johnsen and Friborg worry that their own paper will make matters worse by further lowering people’s expectations.

All this highlights something even stranger, though: when it comes to talk therapy, what does it even mean to speak of the placebo effect? With pills, it’s straightforward: if I swallow a sugar tablet, believing it to be an antidepressant, and my depression lifts, then there’s a good chance the placebo effect is at work. But if I believe that CBT, or any therapy, is likely to work, and it does, who’s to say if my beliefs were really the cause, rather than the therapy? Beliefs are an integral part of the process, not a rival explanation. The line between what I think is going on and what is going on starts to blur. Truly convince yourself that a psychological intervention is working and by definition it’s working.

Perhaps every era needs a practice it can believe in as a miracle cure – Freudian psychoanalysis in the 1930s, CBT in the 1990s, mindfulness meditation today – until research gradually reveals it to be as flawed as everything else.

Or it could be that we’re changing as people. In 1958, a US psychoanalyst, Allen Wheelis, published a book arguing that Freudian analysis had stopped working because the American character had altered. In Freud’s day, Wheelis argued, people didn’t understand why they felt sad; psychoanalysis gave them explanations, whereupon they found it easy to transform their lives. Modern people were better at self-understanding, but they lacked the gumption to do anything about it. “Lacking the sturdy character of the Victorians,” as Roy F Baumeister and John Tierney put it in their book Willpower‚ “people didn’t have the strength to follow up on the insight and change their lives.”

The old techniques weren’t completely wrong; they’d just outlived their usefulness. If the secret of happiness is hard to find, maybe that’s because the answer keeps changing.

oliver.burkeman@theguardian.com
 
http://www.beatingtheblues.co.uk/

This is what local services (at least, i don't know whether this is a national provision) recommend as a home study. Ideally they would want patients to attend a group course lasting about six weeks. From what I can gather, it's the same course/curriculum so YMMV as to which is better.

What disturbs me is that the case studies include a single mother who's greatest problem is money, or the lack thereof. She is struggling to survive and to regard that so glibly by calling it 'the blues', as if poverty and austerity is solved with a bit of elbow grease, gumption, or enthusiastic sock pulling is not just sickening but dangerous.

This is how CBT will be used by the JC; people who are dying to live will just be dismissed because of their perceived lack of self discipline - what the american self help guru types call a 'pity party' (a vile phrase). No mention made of the need to have an income and, basically, money.
 
In that particular case evening sessions would need the provision of childcare. It's the presumption that "our" time is "their" time. Fuckem.
the service I'm referring to is not based in JObcentres and pre-dates the current plans. I have no idea how those would work since, if it's based in the JC it would have to operate within JC opening hours as well as accommodate the 'customer'.
 
Are you sure? They seen to still be in business AFAIK?

If not then it'd just be sometime else pedaling the same thing.
http://ultrasisplc.com/

Right hand side. "Resignation of NOMAD" means a few things: that they were listed on AIM, the share market for small cap companies, mostly basket case ones; and that they have gone bust, what with NOMADs (nominated advisors) being a regulatory requirement & essential to staying on the market. The detail also tells you that they were suspended in March.

If you read the shareholder commentary, then apparently the DWP are contracting a rival company to do their work. There should be a clear differentiation though; both of these things are private companies and not on their own comparable with IAPT.
 
I'm sure they'll find someone else to flog it off to, or the local mental health service will find another company with a similar CBT product. Capitalism is great.
 
I think Burkeman misses a very important point, in favour of a rather flawed idea that therapy somehow gets old and wears out.

Until CBT emerged, there had never been a fashion for a particular therapeutic modality - sure, the 1970s were a time when, in the US at least, "seeing my analyst/therapist" was an essential part of being aspirational and rich, especially if you were Woody Allen, but nobody really got too hung up about what went on there, or what the therapy actually was. He presents Freudian therapy as if it was the same kind of fad that CBT became in the 1990s and 2000s, and I think that's probably not a valid comparison: Freud gets a hard time because its ideas are couched in the language and values of the 1890s, but - unlike other vogues of the same vintage, like phrenology and electrical contraptions, Freudian analysis has lasted, primarily because it has merit, not because it was once fashionable.

Then along came CBT. I think that, even before it got fashionable, CBT was being oversold - it was the universal panacea, offering a quick fix for every problem, without all that tedious need to spend months or years in therapy, going around digging in the past and raking up stuff. It was the therapeutic equivalent of that other 1970s craze, putting crazy paving on your front garden, burying all that inconvenient past history under a foot of hardcore and concrete, leaving a nice smooth stable low-maintenance surface. And, of course, CBT was sold on its other "advantage" - the fact that it had a kind of built-in performance measuring system. Never mind that clients were perfectly capable of (consciously or otherwise) "gaming" the system and giving the answers they wanted the therapist to hear, none of which was helped by the fact that CBT was seen as simple to administer, and was often being delivered by practitioners with a very thin therapy background - just a few weeks' or months' training in CBT techniques, and off they went. So they were a) not always brilliant at spotting when things were coming up that were problematic, or where the therapy wasn't really working.

But the main problem was that, like the crazy paving, CBT's benefits were being oversold. For a start, it didn't suit everyone. OK, it could be very useful for dealing with the kind of problems that the application of some thought, particularly by a patient curious, smart, and motivated enough to do it, were amenable to fixing, and even someone with deep early trauma might well be moved from a state of total incapability to something resembling normal functioning. But the roots and tendrils were still growing and seeking under the newly-paved surface, and would inevitably find a crack - or make one - through which to emerge. Before long, that new paving was starting to heave and crack as the past shoved its way back out into the light, and people with deep-seated conditions would find themselves returning for "top ups" as the coping strategies put in place started to fail. Or, worse, not returning for "top ups" and feeling like they'd failed, rather than this bold new therapy.

The first Mrs E was a classic example of someone with significant mental health problems being treated by a mental health service for whom the hammer of CBT was the only tool in the box: time and again, she'd be hoicked in for some CBT, which was invariably almost completely abortive (not surprisingly in the circumstances, given that she was almost certainly suffering with borderline personality disorder, not the most amenable condition to treat in the best of circumstances), and, over the years, reinforced a growing and profound sense of failure on her part - if the best the CMHT had to offer (never mind that it was all they had) was not going to help, then it was not any surprise that their clients were likely to feel that the failure was in part their own.

Typically, DWP have gone for this option with a 30 year old mindset that ignores any possible drawbacks in the approach. Most therapists who practice integratively (that's to say using a number of different modalities) will be very clear that there are approaches which work best for particular types of issue and with particular types of client: no one modality is universally applicable to all problems and all clients. We also know that the "presenting issue" (what the client is referred for) is rarely ever the primary issue that will end up being dealt with in therapy - very often, it's the safe-and-sanitised issue that is all the potential client felt able to disclose prior to therapy, and that - at least in the hands of a competent therapist - the underlying stuff comes out when the work is underway. In my own experience, I would say that the percentage of people I see who are referred with "depression and anxiety" for whom that is the sole issue is less than 5%, and I suspect even those are burying something deeper.

So when someone is referred to the DWP provider for CBT with "depression", I don't believe that it is likely, especially given the quite narrowly-focused approach that looks likely to be taken, that any underlying issues will really be addressed. CBT doesn't generally do that, and certainly not at the more superficial level that it will be being delivered at - it looks at the current behaviours, thoughts and feelings, and addresses them alone, with the whole focus being to control and manage the symptomatic manifestation of the depression for which the client was referred. It is the equivalent of laying that crazy paving: and, like a street full of houses with crazy paved front drives, what you end up with a few months and years down the line are some where, every so often, someone has bashed down the lumps and bumps and patched up the cracks, and others where it's heaved and broken up to end up as a dangerous, treacherous mess - either way, not the maintenance-free perfect option it was sold as.

This isn't an attack on CBT: I use it myself, and I think it is a fantastic way (with particular kinds of client) of getting people on their feet and out from behind behaviours and coping strategies that served them well in the beginning, but which they are now hamstrung by. Maybe it's dismissing it a bit lightly, but to me it's a "sticking plaster" or a "crutch", something to enable them to function well enough that they can cope with doing some more in-depth therapeutic work to address the underlying causes of their difficulty. To do a particular kind of job, it's an effective and powerful tool. Used in the wrong way, its problem is not that it's become less effective - just that it's probably being more and more misapplied.
 
It seems to me that CBT is best suited to things like phobias, irrational fears. So if you're afraid of spiders, then you can deconstruct that because, unless you live in Mordor, such a feeling is irrational. For things like having no money while trying to raise a kid on your own, your feelings of depression and isolation are more or less rational - a rational response to circumstances created by living in a shit system with a shit government, to be blunt.
 
It seems to me that CBT is best suited to things like phobias, irrational fears. So if you're afraid of spiders, then you can deconstruct that because, unless you live in Mordor, such a feeling is irrational. For things like having no money while trying to raise a kid on your own, your feelings of depression and isolation are more or less rational - a rational response to circumstances created by living in a shit system with a shit government, to be blunt.

Mordor, twinned with Hull.
 
I don't know of many clinicians who use CBT (and many who say they use CBT are really only using CBT principles and haven't done any accredited training) who believe this crap about it being a universal panacea. Mental health services have long been saddled with the emotional consequences of inequality and injustice, CBT didn't invent this, this is just a particularly egregious attempt to individualise the cost of political and economic decisions. No therapy should or can be used as a substitute for solidarity, action and social justice.

While it's certainly true that CBT focuses on what maintains a problem rather than what initially caused it, it's absolutely not true that CBT never looks at causes, schemas and underlying beliefs. That is absolute nonsense. The reason CBT focuses on what's keeping something going is that a lot of time has been spent working out that for most people it's the most helpful thing to do. That doesn't mean any therapist worth their salt should think it's the only thing to do.

As someone said upthread, often very progressive ideas can be highjacked by government who see it as a cheap, individualised option. This has absolutely happened to CBT. I'm increasingly concerned that there are a lot of people with vested interests of their own absolutely desperate to kick CBT while it is down though. It still remains for many people the absolutely best chance of recovery.
 
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