Your nominations for the twelth Doctor

[Reno]

It's not about a male or female persona. The Doctor's persona hasn't been particularly gendered since Hartnell (and Cushing's IIRC) Doctor played at being a grandfather.

That strikes me as a rather odd thing to say. I think it's the other way round. A grandfatherly figure used to be seen as asexual ( past it) while it is implied that there is a romantic tension between the recent Doctors and female companions.

I take it from the above, that you're still having trouble relating to females.

In this case it only means that he can't relate to a female Doctor Who and not to female characters in general. There was the same discussion about a female James Bond here recently, which I would find idiotic. Why not just come up with a new female character who is an equivalent and finally make a decent Modesty Blaise film for instance, rather than turning established characters into equal opportunity exercises.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That strikes me as a rather odd thing to say. I think it's the other way round. A grandfatherly figure used to be seen as asexual ( past it) while it is implied that there is a romantic tension between the recent Doctors and female companions.

A grandfather may be seen as asexual (past it), but he's convincedly "male" by the fact that he has fathered children who've provided him with grandchildren in the first place.

 

[DotCommunist]

That strikes me as a rather odd thing to say. I think it's the other way round. A grandfatherly figure used to be seen as asexual ( past it) while it is implied that there is a romantic tension between the recent Doctors and female companions.

I'm not a fan of the sexual tension between doc and companion. To my mind it was always an apprentice-type relationship. So a chaste experience, mutual shit that has nothing to do with sex.

 

[DotCommunist]

A grandfather may be seen as asexual (past it), but he's convincedly "male" by the fact that he has fathered children who've provided him with grandchildren in the first place.

big things with hartnell tho mates. Half the shit is based around him nicking a type 50 but being psychically linked to it and that susan.Its a quagmire.

 

[Reno]

A grandfather may be seen as asexual (past it), but he's convincedly "male" by the fact that he has fathered children who've provided him with grandchildren in the first place.

I'm sure Christopher Eccleston will be delighted to find out that according to you he isn't gendered.

 

[Reno]

I'm not a fan of the sexual tension between doc and companion. To my mind it was always an apprentice-type relationship. So a chaste experience, mutual shit that has nothing to do with sex.

I don't care one way or another, I was just answering to the absurdity that apparently recent Doctors haven't been gender specific representations.

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't care, I was just answering to the absurdity that apparently recent Doctors haven't been gender specific representations.

but you should care! you are the bloke who loves films and stuff if you don't care then who the fuck should.

I'm annoyed, annoyed and betrayed

Mind you: Jon Hurt. Oh yes

 

[Reno]

but you should care! you are the bloke who loves films and stuff if you don't care then who the fuck should.

I'm annoyed, annoyed and betrayed

Mind you: Jon Hurt. Oh yes

I love films and adult drama series, I'm not that bothered about British kids series, but because I've dated a Doctor Who fan in the past I've seen more of it than I care. I just don't believe that it's necessarily a great idea to tamper with the gender of long established characters in general and that has nothing to do with not relating to characters of the opposite sex. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a great idea. I wouldn't like to see Alien's Ripley turned into a bloke either.

There seems to be a lot of it around here at the moment: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/rebecca-by-daphne-du-maurier.311151/

 

[magneze]

Cliff Richard

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm sure Christopher Eccleston will be delighted to find out that according to you he isn't gendered.

Ah, but I didn't say that, did I? You merely assumed it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Cliff Richard

You sick bastard!

 

[spanglechick]

I love films and adult drama series, I'm not that bothered about British kids series, but because I've dated a Doctor Who fan in the past I've seen more of it than I care. I just don't believe that it's necessarily a great idea to tamper with the gender of long established characters in general and that has nothing to do with not relating to characters of the opposite sex. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a great idea. I wouldn't like to see Alien's Ripley turned into a bloke either.

There seems to be a lot of it around here at the moment: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/rebecca-by-daphne-du-maurier.311151/

that was gromit trying too make the same point as you... but both analogies fall down: ripley is not a character who is regularly reincarnated to have markedly different personalities. funnily enough, bond is a better example... but there is less variation in the personalities of the bonds thus far, and also gender relationships are fundamental to the storylines (or at least the sub plots) in bond films.

 

[Reno]

that was gromit trying too make the same point as you... but both analogies fall down: ripley is not a character who is regularly reincarnated to have markedly different personalities. funnily enough, bond is a better example... but there is less variation in the personalities of the bonds thus far, and also gender relationships are fundamental to the storylines (or at least the sub plots) in bond films.

A sci-fi series which dealt with that in an intriguing way was with the Trill in Star Trek DS9 were they specifically used a symbiotic alien who regenerates via different human hosts to deal with queer sexuality (still way too scary to tackle head-on in 90s TV land) but they too replaced one female lead character with another female when she "regenerated" (the original actress left the series, like with Doctor Who where they only came up with the regeneration business to allow for cast changes).

In the end I think the fans would be up in arms and there would be a massive backlash unless the casting was some brilliant stroke of genius. So far I've only been convinced by the suggestion of Margaret Rutherford and unfortunately she's dead. The likes of Helen Mirren and Tilda Swinton only get mentioned because they are acclaimed and well liked actresses, but they would be totally wrong.

 

[SpookyFrank]

wouldn't like to see Alien's Ripley turned into a bloke either.

IIRC the original screenplay for Alien gave only the characters' surnames and no indication of whether they were male or female.

 

[Reno]

IIRC the original screenplay for Alien gave only the characters' surnames and no indication of whether they were male or female.

I know. But then the film got made with a woman in the lead and it would be a lesser film without Weaver, who generally tops polls as the greatest screen heroine of all time.

 

[elbows]

I'm not a fan of the sexual tension between doc and companion. To my mind it was always an apprentice-type relationship. So a chaste experience, mutual shit that has nothing to do with sex.

Its somewhat hard to tell if that was always supposed to be the case because during a large part of the original Who run it was the era where relationships were often barely even hinted at on such telly programs. But there was sometimes a fleeting hint of something more, which fans and fan fiction writers had no trouble expanding into something with a lot more dumpy-pumpy, the filthy beasts!

The most obvious example of something more was when Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were gettinginto a relationship in real life, which translated into a certain something the viewer may have noticed around series 17, and on into the somewhat decaying atmosphere of the 2nd half of series 18 as she left and Baker entered his final stories in the role.

 

[DotCommunist]

A sci-fi series which dealt with that in an intriguing way was with the Trill in Star Trek DS9 were they specifically used a symbiotic alien who regenerates via different human hosts to deal with queer sexuality (still way too scary to tackle head-on in 90s TV land) but they too replaced one female lead character with another female when she "regenerated" (the original actress left the series, like with Doctor Who where they only came up with the regeneration business to allow for cast changes).

In the end I think the fans would be up in arms and there would be a massive backlash unless the casting was some brilliant stroke of genius. So far I've only been convinced by the suggestion of Margaret Rutherford and unfortunately she's dead. The likes of Helen Mirren and Tilda Swinton only get mentioned because they are acclaimed and well liked actresses, but they would be totally wrong.

I think you deal uncharitably with the fandom here reno. Recon if it was done right the faithful would fall in line. I would and I'm an inveterate who fan

 

[DotCommunist]

Its somewhat hard to tell if that was always supposed to be the case because during a large part of the original Who run it was the era where relationships were often barely even hinted at on such telly programs. But there was sometimes a fleeting hint of something more, which fans and fan fiction writers had no trouble expanding into something with a lot more dumpy-pumpy, the filthy beasts!

The most obvious example of something more was when Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were gettinginto a relationship in real life, which translated into a certain something the viewer may have noticed around series 17, and on into the somewhat decaying atmosphere of the 2nd half of series 18 as she left and Baker entered his final stories in the role.

mate, 90% of doctors companions didn't actually sleep with him.

 

[ginger_syn]

I would just like to plant my flag firmly in the camp of those not wanting a female Doctor. personally I think it would be a pointless gimmick.I mean what happens afterwards, the Moffat, RTD thing is bad enough, male/ female Doctor stuff would lead to whovian Armageddon .

 

[ginger_syn]

forgot to add my nomination either Ben Miller or Damian Lewis ,the grandson would love a ginger Doctor

 

[Vintage Paw]

In this case it only means that he can't relate to a female Doctor Who and not to female characters in general.

No. He's suggesting that any women viewing the show only do so because they are passive, and need to be the passenger, that that is integral to who they are and why they can relate to the programme as it is. He is suggesting that if there was a woman as the doctor then women would have to switch how they relate to the show, and might have to start relating to the doctor instead of the companion.

There are so many levels of fuckwittedness about that argument I don't know where to begin. Not only is he suggesting that women are inherently passive and 'followers', he's also implying that men and women can only relate to characters who share the same gender as them, as well as assuming that there are set reasons why men and women might be interested in certain types of shows.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I would just like to plant my flag firmly in the camp of those not wanting a female Doctor. personally I think it would be a pointless gimmick.I mean what happens afterwards, the Moffat, RTD thing is bad enough, male/ female Doctor stuff would lead to whovian Armageddon .

Why is a woman being in the lead a gimmick? What if the doctor was black? Gimmick? Or gay? Gimmick? I think we should perhaps only ever have straight white people in television shows, and probably in any public position, because anything else is sheer tokenism, pandering to the liberal loonies.

 

[ginger_syn]

no it would be because it has no purpose to arbitrarily change the Doctor's sex at this point.

 

[Quartz]

I saw a rumour on another site that the next Doctor has already been chosen. I cannot now find the link. Anyone got it?

 

[kabbes]

Why is a woman being in the lead a gimmick? What if the doctor was black? Gimmick? Or gay? Gimmick? I think we should perhaps only ever have straight white people in television shows, and probably in any public position, because anything else is sheer tokenism, pandering to the liberal loonies.

 

[spanglechick]

no it would be because it has no purpose to arbitrarily change the Doctor's sex at this point.

but they change absolutely everything else about him. his age, his personality, his level of sexual awareness... why is gender a bridge so far?

 

[Lord Camomile]

A grandfather may be seen as asexual (past it), but he's convincedly "male" by the fact that he has fathered children who've provided him with grandchildren in the first place.

Eh? Sorry, been keeping out of this one really, but surely the "having of grandchildren" is not a particularly masculine trait at all

The converse would be that a grandmother is convincedly female because what? Because she has mothered children who've provided her with children? It's the same thing, surely?

 

[kabbes]

Maybe a grandfather is decidedly male because of cock and balls?

 

[snadge]

What the fuck is this shit?

 

[ginger_syn]

but they change absolutely everything else about him. his age, his personality, his level of sexual awareness... why is gender a bridge so far?

because on a personal level, I don't want a female Doctor,and also what would be the point of this change of gender, while I'm aware that gender change is possible for timelords, it would not sit right within the show at the moment given the Doctor's regeneration history .