"Young professionals" to infest flats above Iceland

[corporate whore]

According to this weekend's Observer, going on data from the Halifax, Lambeth experienced the lowest rise in house prices of any London borough in 2004, being a mere 3%.

Dunno what that says about anything that's being discussed here, since I can't be arsed to trawl through another navel-gazing thread, but just thought it was worth mentioning.

Ta.

 

[editor]

According to this weekend's Observer, going on data from the Halifax, Lambeth experienced the lowest rise in house prices of any London borough in 2004, being a mere 3%.

Interesting stat, that.

Cheers.

 

[William of Walworth]

According to this weekend's Observer, going on data from the Halifax, Lambeth experienced the lowest rise in house prices of any London borough in 2004, being a mere 3%.

Dunno what that says about anything that's being discussed here, since I can't be arsed to trawl through another navel-gazing thread, but just thought it was worth mentioning.

Ta.

It's worth a skim at least though cw -- there's a lot more to it than just infighting.

 

[Hollis]

Fwiw.. taking a years snapshot of house prices is pretty meaningless really - you have to look at longer term trends.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

As a generalisation though, wouldn't it be correct to say that if you weigh up the reletive important of "vibrancy" (God, how that terms annoys me) and "transport links" then "vibrancy would be more important to the new graduates, the younger people, who were looking at renting for (perhaps) their first or second place in London, but "transport links" were more likely to loom larger for slightly older people (and) people who were looking to buy somewhere? If this is reasonable, then it would logically imply that transport links are likely to have a rather greater influence on property values than on rents.

Of course it's impossible to say for sure.

 

[corporate whore]

It's worth a skim at least though cw -- there's a lot more to it than just infighting.

Agreed, but it does seem to generate a certain sense of deja vu..

 

[corporate whore]

Fwiw.. taking a years snapshot of house prices is pretty meaningless really - you have to look at longer term trends.

Again, I agree. Must be the first year of single digit growth in what, 10?

 

[editor]

As a generalisation though, wouldn't it be correct to say that if you weigh up the reletive important of "vibrancy" (God, how that terms annoys me) and "transport links" then "vibrancy would be more important to the new graduates, the younger people, who were looking at renting for (perhaps) their first or second place in London, but "transport links" were more likely to loom larger for slightly older people

Can't say I agree with that. When I moved to London I lived in fucking awful, far-flung, 'vibrancy'-untroubled areas of the East End, but their proximity to tube stations meant that I could feel 'part' of London.

Being near a tube station was really important. Living in a 'vibrant' area didn't figure much on my radar, mainly because there was no way I could ever afford to live in one (at the time, Camden was the 'place to be' for low slung hipsters). Just being connected to the tube network meant that I could get about and enjoy the great city, even if it meant a lot of travelling.

But, of course, that was just my experience.

 

[Orang Utan]

I lived in Woolwich/Plumstead/Charlton for the first three years - it took ages to get home from clubs/work etc, but I still felt part of London - I just thought that was what London was like - a vast sprawl in which you spend a huge amount of your time sitting on a stationary train. I might not feel the same way now though.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I suspect a lot depends also on whether (a) you know London before you get here; (b) you know other people who can tell you about London; and (c) whether you're finding a place on your own or with other people. As well as, of course, a host of other factors involving where you're working, how much money you have etc.

 

[editor]

Exactly. So it's impossible to generalise about the reasons why young/old people move to certain areas because there's too many personal factors involved.

 

[newbie]

As a generalisation though, wouldn't it be correct to say that if you weigh up the reletive important of "vibrancy" (God, how that terms annoys me) and "transport links" then "vibrancy would be more important to the new graduates, the younger people, who were looking at renting for (perhaps) their first or second place in London, but "transport links" were more likely to loom larger for slightly older people (and) people who were looking to buy somewhere? If this is reasonable, then it would logically imply that transport links are likely to have a rather greater influence on property values than on rents.

Of course it's impossible to say for sure.

Both of those will be influential in the minds of people choosing an area with nothing else to go on. Newcomers to London, for instance. But after that allsorts of factors come into play, high amongst them being who you know and where they live. Once an area aquires a good reputation within a group, and individuals start to know people who live and play there, it becomes an obvious choice when looking for somewhere to live. So 'vibrancy', in the sense of bars or restaurants or the Rirtzy or Jayday or a cool website based community.... is only part of the picture. They exist to service the wants of their punters and they act as part of the appeal of the area, an attraction for their target audience and quite possibly a detraction for those who aren't part of the target. And that's the point- Brixton has aquired a reputation as a young & cool place, so y&c people gravitate there, while those who aren't see rather less as attractive. The tube is a factor for everybody.

Once a group- youngish, childless graduates for instance- achieves critical mass in an area it's hardly surprising if services for them predominate and those for others wither a bit. From the point of view of the full range of inhabitants of the area that that's not necessarily a good thing.

 

[Hollis]

Exactly. So it's impossible to generalise about the reasons why young/old people move to certain areas because there's too many personal factors involved.

Errr?

I think an estate agent would beg to differ.

 

[editor]

Errr?

I think an estate agent would beg to differ.

Wow! So they're privy to all the personal reasons why people of all ages might move to an area?

Incredible!

 

[Hollis]

No, of course I'm not, but just because they will be particuar factors involved in each case, doesn't mean you can't generalise - how d'you think marketing companies work.

Why d'you think Eastbourne is crammed full of old people.. for example.. It just randomly worked out that way?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Exactly. So it's impossible to generalise about the reasons why young/old people move to certain areas because there's too many personal factors involved.

No, it's not at all impossible to generalise. It's just difficult to do so with any accuracy. But people do have to do precisely that - people making housing and transport plans for London, for instance, need to be aware of these factors and try and estimate the particular weight of each. Not only is it not "impossible", it's necessary.

Edit - and, indeed, estate agents, and other people involved in markets of all sorts. That's precisely what people involved both in palnning and in markets try to do - make judgements about a host of complex and conflicting factors. As ever, they "do you know everything about everybody involved?" response is unhelpful and offers no illumination.

 

[editor]

No, of course I'm not, but just because they will be particuar factors involved in each case, doesn't mean you can't generalise - how d'you think marketing companies work.

I've never let a 'marketing company' influence my decision to move to a certain area. Have you?

 

[editor]

No, it's not at all impossible to generalise. It's just difficult to do so with any accuracy.

It's clearly impossible to disagree when you slap on such a king size caveat at the end.

 

[newbie]

I've never let a 'marketing company' influence my decision to move to a certain area. Have you?

Bear in mind that you're the only person to say you weren't aged 20-40 when you moved to Brixton. Your motivations and understandings may not be the same as the majority of incomers.

 

[editor]

Edit - and, indeed, estate agents, and other people involved in markets of all sorts. That's precisely what people involved both in palnning and in markets try to do - make judgements about a host of complex and conflicting factors. As ever, they "do you know everything about everybody involved?" response is unhelpful and offers no illumination.

So did estate agents play any part in your recent decision to move?

They've certainly never, ever played any part in any of my moving decisions.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Well, I shouldn't have to observe, almost every time estimates and generalisations are involved, that estimates and generalisations are precisely that, and that while being indispensible they have very obvious limitations which are recognised by people who make them.

 

[editor]

Bear in mind that you're the only person to say you weren't aged 20-40 when you moved to Brixton. Your motivations and understandings may not be the same as the majority of incomers.

So was your decision to move to an area influenced by an estate agent and if so, why?!

 

[editor]

Well, I shouldn't have to observe, almost every time estimates and generalisations are involved, that estimates and generalisations are precisely that, and that while being indispensible they have very obvious limitations which are recognised by people who make them.

If you're going to argue your point using vague generalisations, maybe you should.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

So did estate agents play any part in your recent decision to move?

I don't know (nor do I understand why I'm being asked). Directly, certainly not - they couldn't have. Indirectly though they willl affect many people's decisions because, for instance, if they succeed in attracting other people to an area x, then the price of accommodation in area x will rise, thereby influencing the decisions of other people in making that area prohibitively expensive to live in.

 

[Hollis]

I've never let a 'marketing company' influence my decision to move to a certain area. Have you?

That is hardly my point. It was an example of how people can generalise with accuracy - and make a living out of it.

In the same way you could generalise about who hits a website... I mean there ain't too many 60 year old Grannies hanging around here.. (for example).

 

[editor]

Indirectly though they willl affect many people's decisions because, for instance, if they succeed in attracting other people to an area x, then the price of accommodation in area x will rise, thereby influencing the decisions of other people in making that area prohibitively expensive to live in.

Do you think that individual estate agents are that powerful?

 

[editor]

In the same way you could generalise about who hits a website... I mean there ain't too many 60 year old Grannies hanging around here.. (for example).

That comparison is seriously flawed. I built this site from scratch to reflect my own interests.

I don't know many estate agents who build entire areas.

And, to be honest, I'd be quite hard pushed to generalise a meaningful demographic for this website that covered earnings, aspirations, background etc.

 

[newbie]

So was your decision to move to an area influenced by an estate agent and if so, why?!

I once moved out of the area following influence from an estate agent. Walter G Elms <spit> sent a bunch of pissartists armed with pickaxes round to attend to some 'plumbing' in a squat I lived in. They were carted away to the nick, but we took the hint and moved shortly afterwards anyway.


To answer the question more directly- last time I moved Brixton didn't exist for estate agents- it was all north Streatham, Dulwich reaches, Clapham borders.... So it was an obvious place to look for somewhere cheap.

If I was looking now I wouldn't buy somewhere advertised as for 'young professionals' or as an 'executive home' or what have you. But they wouldn't use that advertising if it didn't work.

 

[tarannau]

I don't know (nor do I understand why I'm being asked). Directly, certainly not - they couldn't have. Indirectly though they willl affect many people's decisions because, for instance, if they succeed in attracting other people to an area x, then the price of accommodation in area x will rise, thereby influencing the decisions of other people in making that area prohibitively expensive to live in.

There's some truth in that, but throughout this thread I've argued that Brixton is reasonably fairly priced compared to its location, its neighbours, range of local services and transport. I see very little actual evidence that Brixton house prices are boosted significantly by notions of 'trendiness' or 'vibrancy,' despite some of the opinions shown here.

I'm not denying that if an area is perceived to be 'cool' then property prices may be affected. But that does not seem to be the case particularly here - if it is, then it's been offset by other potential factors - Brixton's perceived risk and edgy perception may be compensating by taking values down perhaps.

Here's a great example of Brixton's vibrancy actually seen as a disadvantage by estate agents and developers. Check out this website of this development in Stockwell SW9 (or North Clapham as they market it) - they've actually removed any mention or sign of Brixton from the map, so as not to scare the poor young urban professionals from moving in. Does that tally with a view that Brixton's vibrancy is pushing up house prices?

 

[Hollis]

That comparison is seriously flawed. I built this site from scratch to reflect my own interests.

I don't know many estate agents who build entire areas.

And, to be honest, I'd be quite hard pushed to generalise a meaningful demographic for this website that covered earnings, aspirations, background etc.

Your still missing my point.. Its about the fact that people can and do generalise with some degree of accuracy. - Enough to justfiy massive expenditure in some cases.