WTC Attack - Just another one for the conspiracy theorists or not?

[Johnny Canuck3]

Best of Johnny Canuck available here.

The editor gets annoyed with this kind of stuff. But I won't turn you in: I'm not a rat.

Are you ignoring me these days? I know I kicked your ass a lot in a lot of arguments, but I didn't think you'd take it personally.

 

[Jessiedog]

We took our dog to the vets. I just phoned, and he's recommending that we have the dog put down. So, I'm procrastinating about going home and telling the kids, by wasting time here. The posts may not be of the best quality.

So dreadfully sorry JC.



Woof

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So dreadfully sorry JC.



Woof

Thank you. It is the fucking shits.

 

[Jessiedog]

Thank you. It is the fucking shits.

I know!

I'm still suffering from the fairly recent deaths of two of my dogs (poisened by some mad fuck!)

Stay strong.



Woof

 

[WouldBe]

Well, ed, they didn't need miles of cables to blow up the train carriages in Spain. This was done by mobile phone technology, thro the sim card.

You couldn't use 1 bomb per floor to bring the towers down. It would have to be specifically placed charges with probably in excess of 100 charges per floor. Requiring 100 mobile phones per floor.

Can you phone 100 mobile phone numbers in under a second?

Bearing in mind the number of phone calls that would have been made in that area at that time there would be NO guarantee that you would be able to get through to 1 of the mobile phones let alone 100's of numbers in a few seconds.

If they weren't tear-gas canisters, and they weren't explosive missiles fired into the lower levels of the tower, then what were they?

Just how much noise does a tear gas canister being fired make? Especially to be heard by people trapped deep in a basement of the WTC!!!!!

And 'boom. boom. boom, boom, boom' still sounds less like a tower finally avalanching to the pressure at the top and more like a series of controlled explosions to me.

And I suppose that tons of concrete and steel falling onto a concrete floor, and snapping of steel girders and concrete floors all happens quietly!!!!!

 

[editor]

Well, ed, they didn't need miles of cables to blow up the train carriages in Spain.

Good grief. I'm having trouble taking you seriously.

You're really trying to draw comparisons between light, thin railway carriages and what was one of the world's tallest structures?

 

[CaroleK]

I suppose it all boils down to whether you trust these groups or not. If you don't then you'll see the Light thro all the discrepancies. If you do then you'll be blind to the obvious.

But fortunately, some of us can still 'see'.

'Behold I show you a mystery. We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed.' - Revelation .

Sleep on people. We'll keep watch for you.

... Shalom.

 

[Diamond]

I suppose it all boils down to whether you trust these groups or not. If you don't then you'll see the Light thro all the discrepancies. If you do then you'll be blind to the obvious.

But fortunately, some of us can still 'see'.

'Behold I show you a mystery. We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed.' - Revelation .

Sleep on people. We'll keep watch for you.

... Shalom.

You do realise how staggeringly arrogant you are?

Fela Fan - if you happen to see this mate then maybe you'll be able to remember a chat we had around christmas time on here about conspiracy theories in general. I was saying something about theorists getting big ego boosts from their 'revealed truths' and consequently how much the theory is wrapped up in their personal identity and so on. Here's a pretty good case in point I think.

 

[butchersapron]

'Behold I show you a mystery. We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed.' - Revelation .

Sleep on people. We'll keep watch for you.

... Shalom.

That's not even from Revalation(s) you arrogant idiot. Still think the Jews were behind the holocaust?

 

[editor]

I suppose it all boils down to whether you trust these groups or not. If you don't then you'll see the Light thro all the discrepancies. If you do then you'll be blind to the obvious.

But fortunately, some of us can still 'see'.

'Behold I show you a mystery. We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed.' - Revelation .

Sleep on people. We'll keep watch for you.

Ah. The classic delusional signs of the pompous, pretentious conspiracy theorist!

You can 'see' but we're all 'blind' and stupid eh?
And we have to thank you for 'keeping watch' too?

Shame your 'enhanced' vision prevents you from adequately answering the straightforward points raised though.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You do realise how staggeringly arrogant you are?
.

Not arrogant. Just crazy.

 

[fela fan]

You do realise how staggeringly arrogant you are?

Fela Fan - if you happen to see this mate then maybe you'll be able to remember a chat we had around christmas time on here about conspiracy theories in general. I was saying something about theorists getting big ego boosts from their 'revealed truths' and consequently how much the theory is wrapped up in their personal identity and so on. Here's a pretty good case in point I think.

Just seen it mate. Yeah, but all this is a game really, life is a game. You see, you nor I know whether CaroleK is taking the piss, thinks she is arrogant, thinks she knows more, is reacting to those opposing her, trying to get people's backs up for fun, or whatever.

I do remember the thread and our chat. But at the end of the day, i've often been called arrogant on these boards by those that don't know me. It matters not a jot, coz it's their opinion which they were born to hold. You see, I am me, and the me that every single other person in the world sees me as is not the same me. It is just their perception of me.

Hope you can accept that bit. Coz it's central to life in my book, but also a bit off the tangent here, but what the fuck. Give me a yellow card...

 

[fela fan]

Oh, and the bit about the ego. It is very rare indeed the man or woman who doesn't need to feed their ego to feel confident about themselves in life.

The trick is to try and starve the monster wherever possible. So calling someone else as having a huge ego, is really just describing most of the relatively wealthier sections of humanity.

And calling others for it means that the mirror's getting dusty .

 

[CaroleK]

Yes, you're right, butchersapron, it was said by Paul: '... neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed ... and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.' - Corinthians I, ch15, v50-52

My mistake.

But the point remains.

(Raises her hat to felafan .)

 

[fela fan]

Doth taken. What do the plebs know eh... ?

Laughs himself to sleep...

 

[bigfish]

CIA briefing memo exposes Bush lies on 9/11

The declassification and release of the president’s daily brief (PDB) for August 6, 2001, coming on the heels of National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice’s appearance before the commission appointed to investigate the events of September 11, has thoroughly exposed the official version of the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington as a tissue of lies.


Whatever shred of credibility remained for the Bush administration’s claims that it had no prior warnings of an attack by Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda network on the US mainland has been shattered by the publication of the CIA memo, entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US.”


The administration’s decision to release the memo, like every other concession it has made to demands for a public investigation of the 9/11 attacks, was taken in a grudging attempt to quell growing skepticism over the official line, and the vocal protests of family members of 9/11 victims, many of whom are outraged over White House stonewalling and sabotage of efforts to uncover the facts surrounding the worst single attack on US civilians in American history.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/pdb-a12.shtml

 

[fela fan]

Yes, things are beginning to get interesting for us observers!

But a bit hot round the collar of those in the USG.

The truth usually has a way of outing itself, often by unravelling slowly but surely. It is the highest authority in human life, in nature itself, and will always always win out over lies.

The only aspect is time, and how long it takes for a truth to assert itself, as it will because it is the ultimate 'God'.

The USG conspiracy on 9/11 is unravelling folks...

 

[bigfish]

An Open Letter To Condoleezza Rice "You Are a Liar" By Catherine Austin Fitts

Catherine Austin Fitts
Former Assistant Secretary of Housing (Bush I Administration)
Hon. Condoleezza Rice
National Security Advisor
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
April 9, 2004


Dear Ms. Rice:


I am writing to communicate four points regarding your testimony yesterday under oath before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.


Point #1: You are a liar.


Attorney General Ashcroft sits on the National Security Council. Warned by his FBI security detail, the head of law enforcement for the United States knew to avoid commercial airlines on September 11, 2001.


It was your job as National Security Advisor to make sure that the people who flew on American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175, United Airlines Flight 93 and American Airlines Flight 77 had the benefit of the same warnings as those they paid to protect us.


You knew. You kept silent. They died.

...

Point #3: You are going down.


The richest and most powerful people in the world pay for performance. They pay you to make the US governmental apparatus look legitimate while they use it to centralize economic and political power. That means they need liars who are better at lying than you.


The myth that you had no idea that Americans deserved to be warned about the risks of flying or planes being used as weapons is now in the dust heap with the notion that the United States attacked Iraq and our soldiers are dying to protect us from Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.


Your lies of 9-11 ˆ like your lies about the Iraqi war ˆ have been profitable for the military-banking complex you represent. These lies, however, have not misled the crowd. The American people and global citizens are looking for the truth. We demand the changes that will give meaning and honor to those who died on 9-11 and in the ensuing wars. We demand an end to further bloodshed. We demand a refund of all that you and your backers have stolen from those of us who remain alive.


Point #4: You are guilty of criminal gross negligence.


If you want to catch a terrorist today, you need look no further than your own mirror.


Many Americans gather this weekend to give thanks that Jesus died for our sins and gave us the covenant of grace. In the spirit of our Lord's crucification and resurrection, may God have mercy on your soul.

http://www.williambowles.info/911/open_letter_to_rice.html

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Anyone keeping track knows that the administration has taken a hammering by the new Richard Clarke book, the 9/11 hearings, and Condi's refusal to testify under oath at those. With reluctance, they have finally given in regarding Condi's testimony, and in an almost laughable "compromise", Bush and Cheney will appear together -- in private and not under oath -- before commission members on some undisclosed date in the near future. Condi is obviously going to need some help, and to that end, the administration has trotted out what they hope will be the perfect alibi for the whole mess: National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD)-9. From Reuters(UK) comes the story:

The White House, feeling the heat over charges that President George W. Bush failed to make terrorism an urgent priority before September 11, has released documents showing that one week before the 2001 attacks he ordered plans for military action against al Qaeda.

Portions of a September 4, 2001, national security presidential directive were released as plans were set for national security adviser Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly on April 8 before the September 11, 2001, commission."

...The September 4 presidential directive called on Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to plan for military options 'against Taliban targets in Afghanistan, including leadership, command-control, air and air Defence, ground forces, and logistics.'

It also called for plans against al Qaeda and 'associated terrorist facilities in Afghanistan, including leadership, command-control-communications, training, and logistics facilities.'

Now, you can't get this from Reuters anymore because they've pulled it (as has Wired News -- if you look elsewhere in the U.S. media, you'll find a sentence or two buried deep within articles focusing on other related topics), but newspapers in the United Kingdom, Australia, India, and elsewhere have headlined it. This is quite curious, because this is really is an extraordinary story: The administration had actually called for a war against Afghanistan before September 11th, which of course takes away from September 11th as a reason for that war.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0404/S00103.htm

Pretty odd, don'tchafink?

 

[nozferatu]

oops....wrong thread

 

[pyx]

Right.

Have you any idea about the huge amount of explosives would be needed to bring down a building a size of the WTC?

if thermite was used to weaken the steel, surprisingly little.

once the steels were gone any building would bring it's self down.

not saying it was used (or wasn't) just pointing out that a relatively small amount of thermite would do the job.

"Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., told AFP that he saw pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center"
[ Christopher Bollyn - American Free Press ]

thermite generates massive amounts of heat, far in excess of the temperatures that aviation fuel can produce even if the avgas didn't burn
off in the first 10 mins, which it's supposed to have done.

although I have no idea what really happened but I'm surprised that anyone believes the 'official' story about what happened


pyx

 

[pyx]

two high speed aircraft stuffed full of fuel

they weren't stuffed full of fuel, just the tanks.

a large proportion of what they were carrying would have burned off in the initial impacts i.e. massive fireballs.

the rest would have burned for less than 10mins.


pyx

 

[WouldBe]

if thermite was used to weaken the steel, surprisingly little.

once the steels were gone any building would bring it's self down.

True but if you blow the base out of a building the whole building drops into the blown out space. This is not what was seen on the TV footage. The building came down from the point of impact floor by floor. So this would have required explosives to be place on each floor, which when you consider the size of the building and the number of floors would add up to a lot of explosive even if it was thermite.

 

[pyx]

True but if you blow the base out of a building the whole building drops into the blown out space.

incorrect.

that's why demolition firms use a series of charges set throughout the building.

This is not what was seen on the TV footage.

pah, it was all faked on the same soundstage that the apollo moon landings were filmed on.



pyx

 

[bigfish]

Dear Ms. Rice:

I am writing to communicate four points regarding your testimony yesterday under oath before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.


Point #1: You are a liar.

On no less than seven different occasions in today's long-awaited testimony before the September 11th Commission, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice insisted that there was no specific advance knowledge as to the time, place and method of the attacks, and that there was no warning of a domestic internal threat from Al Qaeda throughout the spring and summer of 2001. With these sworn statements the biggest vulnerability of the Bush administration in its criminal complicity for those attacks lies exposed and fully on the record. Ladies and gentlemen, what you witnessed today, on every major network, was perjury – a felony. We will prove that here. But compared to the crimes of murder, conspiracy and treason it was perhaps maybe too small a crime for the major media to notice. It was not too big a crime, however, for the American people and the victim families of 9/11 to notice. The revolution may not be televised. But it may have begun as a result of what was televised today.


Another crime was revealed when Democratic commission member Richard Ben Veniste said, “We agree”, as Rice asserted that there were no specific threats inside the United States before 9/11. The so-called independent commission has no intention of fulfilling its mandate. Ben Veniste's use of the word “we” was the only time where any commissioner spoke for the entire panel and Ben Veniste is neither the Chair nor the Vice Chair of the commission. What prompted him to speak for the entire panel? As FTW has said from the commission's inception, everything that we have witnessed thus far has been stage-managed drama intended to convince the American people that substantive answers to 9-11 have been obtained as a result of a difficult process.


This is an insulting load of bull.


One (of many) Presidential Daily (Intelligence) Briefs (PDBs), dated August 6th 2001, and a frequent theme in Rice's Q&A -- titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside US” -- is only the barest tip of a criminal iceberg.

source

 

[Jazzz]

The phone calls from flight 93

* note to fridgemagnet and others - bumped at editor's request as this is a reply to his questions on Badger Kitten's 7/7 thread

***************************************************************

The Phone Calls from Flight 93

Whenever 9/11 comes up, the evidence for the official theory is invariably concentrated on the phone calls from flight 93, and now we have a transcript of the CVR from flight 93.

The point about these pieces of evidence is that they prove absolutely nothing about flights 77, 11 and 175. Nor do they say anything about how WTCs 1, 2 and notably 7 collapsed. When it comes to hard evidence about these flights, everything is missing - no CVRs, no Flight Data recorders, films of the Pentagon impact, no plane parts identified, etc.

I venture, as before, that there is a simple reason for this - they weren't the flights in question. The people that orchestrated the attack couldn't get hijackers to kill themselves, not that they would have been capable of flying into the Pentagon in any case.

So what was the point of flight 93? Well this is my current belief.

Flight 93 'sold' the illusion. It could have been 'really hijacked', but with the hijackers having no knowledge they were about to meet their doom. In this instance we could have had genuine phone calls from the passengers who by this time got to know about the fate of the other three flights, and who really did set about trying to force their way into the cockpit (apparently unsuccessfully).

Having served the purpose admirably, it then gets shot down - for who is going to crash it for you? Tie up the loose end.

Having said that, I am still puzzled about the calls and they have to be described as 'soft' evidence - there are all kinds of ways in which such a call would not be what it seemed. They are certainly not hard evidence.

Think you couldn't get some patsies to hijack a plane? Well, you haven't seen Heist by Derren Brown, which was repeated the other day, in which he got three very ordinary people to rob a security guard. Plus, you could tell them that this was a war game, and they were playing the part of hijackers, and you tell that to the pilot and crew too, who let themselves be tied up and taken to the back.

Where are the missing plane parts?
Where are the black boxes from the other flights?
Where is the seized footage of the Pentagon impact?
Where are the hijacker's names on passenger lists?

and why not answer these other questions too...

Doesn't it say it all that the evidence for the official theory of 9/11 concentrates on the phone calls from flight 93 which, despite their emotional appeal, are little more than hearsay as evidence? Meanwhile all the actual hard evidence that would prove things one way or the other has been controlled and/or disposed of.

 

[editor]

I don't see a single piece of new, credible evidence to support any of your wild speculation here, and as such I fail to see any good reason why this thread has been resuscitated.

I told you several times that I'm not interested in you posting up the same shit all over again without anything new being added.

And that's just what you've done, isn't it?

Christ, your obsession is getting tiresome.

 

[Jazzz]

In your original question, you didn't demand 'new credible evidence'. You asked my opinion of the phone calls. I have given it to you.

If you want new evidence, you'll have to go to the USG and ask them why they are withholding it.

Public opinion, as you know, is turning on the issue with 83% of CNN voters supporting Charlie Sheen's recent stand.

9/11 is the most important political event of our lives. Get with it.

 

[editor]

Public opinion, as you know, is turning on the issue with 83% of CNN voters supporting Charlie Sheen's recent stand.

So your new evidence is in fact the random witterings of a Hollywood actor and a self selecting online poll?

Phew! Compelling stuff!

Seeing as other US polls showed similar support for the existence of God, Heaven, Hell and Devil (and quite possibiliy UFOs), can I assume that you now fully believe in all of those things too?

Or do you only go along with the polls you like the sound of and discount the rest, yes?

 

[Jazzz]

Well.. if you want some new stuff - Physicist Steve Jones has identified the explosive used to bring down the WTC - thermite with added sulphur.

...video showed a yellow, molten substance splashing off the side of the south Trade Tower about 50 minutes after an airplane hit it and a few minutes before it collapsed. Government investigators ruled out the possibility of melting steel being the source of the material because of the unlikelihood of steel melting. The investigators said the molten material must have been aluminum from the plane.

But, said Jones, molten aluminum is silvery. It never turns yellow. The substance observed in the videos "just isn't aluminum," he said. But, he said, thermite can cause steel to melt and become yellowish.

Second, he cited video pictures showing white ash rising from the south tower near the dripping, liquefied metal. When thermite burns, Jones said, it releases aluminum-oxide ash. The presence of both yellow-white molten iron and aluminum oxide ash "are signature characteristics of a thermite reaction," he said.

Another item of evidence, Jones said, is the fact that sulfur traces were found in structural steel recovered from the Trade Towers. Jones quoted the New York Times as saying sulfidization in the recovered steel was "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the (official) investigation." But, he said, sulfidization fits the theory that sulfur was combined with thermite to make the thermite burn even hotter than it ordinarily would.

Jones said a piece of building wreckage had a gray substance on the outside that at one point had obviously been a dripping molten metal or liquid. He said that after thermite turns steel or iron into a molten form, and the metal hardens, it is gray.

He added that pools of molten metal were found beneath both trade towers and the 47-story WTC 7. That fact, he said, was never discussed in official investigation reports."