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Why the lib-dems are shit

It says the same stuff they've always said - we are the modernsing party, the others have only a passing commitment to civil liberties, vested interests blah blah Clegg is the man to do this, but were they kill him were best to do it quick, oh yeah and we are after a million more votes than last time.
 
butchersapron said:
It says the same stuff they've always said - we are the modernsing party, the others have only a passing commitment to civil liberties, vested interests blah blah Clegg is the man to do this, but were they kill him were best to do it quick, oh yeah and we are after a million more votes than last time.
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I wish I hadn't bought that cunt's book on John Stuart Mill now.
 
Btw, the same Richard Reeves was claiming in 2009 that "There are signs that the Conservatives are sincere about creating a fairer society."

The progressive Conservative vehicle is still on the road, albeit badly dented by the need for recessionary economics. Glaring old Toryisms remain – most obviously in the proposal to financially reward marriage – and there is a huge challenge to be progressive and prudent with a ballooning deficit. There are many areas of policy where the slate is still too blank to form a judgment. But while the prospect of a Conservative government was once a chilling one to any progressive, there is now the possibility that Cameron, supported by his small band of cutlery-rattling progressives, really has changed his party, as Peel, Disraeli and Thatcher did before him. We'll know soon enough.
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No, the rest of us will know - you've fucked off to a well paid elite job in the US .
 
butchersapron said:
Have you read it yet? Just been reading a number of his pieces and they are shockingly lightweight.
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Read half of it and then abandoned it. Take that, you Lib Dem shitbag!

There was no sense of what was really going on in the wrold, no actual sense of history, just one thing after another happening.
 
butchersapron said:
It says the same stuff they've always said - we are the modernsing party, the others have only a passing commitment to civil liberties, vested interests blah blah Clegg is the man to do this, but were they kill him were best to do it quick, oh yeah and we are after a million more votes than last time.
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Slightly more interesting as it's essentially saying the whole SDP/Liberal alliance was a cul-de-sac - in fact more than that, the whole Lloyd-George era turn in Liberal thinking - was a mistake.
 
That's not more interesting at all. It's what people like Reeves who joined the lib-dems from a SDP style position have all been saying since the Orange book - he himself said that SDP style members should leave the party before the election. This is not a new thing for them. There has always been an element of the party who argued that the SDP incursion was the aberration - from the 88 merger and before.
 
Well, it's very hard to see, say, Charles Kennedy or Shirley Williams taking that view. Is Cable prepared to fall in with where Clegg/Reeves want to go with it? Tempting to wonder (with Steve Richards) whether they might split down the middle and have one wing basically orienting to the Tories, and another to Labour.
 
Of course it's hard to see people who don't agree with that view taking that view. What an odd thing to say. Is Cable prepared to? He already has. He is one of the Orange bookers. He said and did nothing when Clegg basically said the same as Reeves - that social democrats should get out of the party. Update your maps again please.
 
well I'm not sure how far down Orange Bookery really goes. And even if that does represent an irreversible shift in their party's direction, I don't think lots of members and activists have caught up with it yet. It's like the reaction of quite a few people in Labour after 97 - Christ, they weren't just saying it for reasons of expediency, it's much worse - they really mean it :eek:
 
I reckon that you're the one who needs to catch up - all those people you refer to are gone, as members and voters. The bloody lib-dems recognise this, why can't you?

I reckon it's because the long-term historic bloc that you bubbletarians thirst for requires there to be a party of nice people outside and to the right of labour.
 
articul8 said:
well I'm not sure how far down Orange Bookery really goes. And even if that does represent an irreversible shift in their party's direction, I don't think lots of members and activists have caught up with it yet. It's like the reaction of quite a few people in Labour after 97 - Christ, they weren't just saying it for reasons of expediency, it's much worse - they really mean it :eek:
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You need to help them reclaim the Lib Dems.
 
butchersapron said:
I reckon that you're the one who needs to catch up - all those people you refer to are gone, as members and voters. The bloody lib-dems recognise this, why can't you?

I reckon it's because the long-term historic bloc that you bubbletarians thirst for requires there to be a party of nice people outside and to the right of labour.
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there is a residual presence - sometimes more - in local government. Are 100pc of these councils pro-orange book, anti-SDP? I doubt it. And the fact that they've lost support doesn't automatically mean that is gone irretrievable. OK, they aren't getting the student vote back anytime soon. And there will be a backlash at the next election. But there will be a proportion of LD voters who are disaffected at present, but still see themselves as kind of anti-Tory centrists and who would flock back if they got rid of Clegg. Richards says that Miliband's team don't expect Clegg to lead them into the next election. So, much is fluid.
 
articul8 said:
there is a residual presence - sometimes more - in local government. Are 100pc of these councils pro-orange book, anti-SDP? I doubt it. And the fact that they've lost support doesn't automatically mean that is gone irretrievable. OK, they aren't getting the student vote back anytime soon. And there will be a backlash at the next election. But there will be a proportion of LD voters who are disaffected at present, but still see themselves as kind of anti-Tory centrists and who would flock back if they got rid of Clegg. Richards says that Miliband's team don't expect Clegg to lead them into the next election. So, much is fluid.
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Fluid as regards what?
 
fluid as regards whether they exist as a force which has any kind of appeal to people with a broadly SPD type politics, or whether they are now forever and eternally condemned to be a small rump of socially and economically (neo)liberal Cameroonian fellow-travellers.
 
articul8 said:
there is a residual presence - sometimes more - in local government. Are 100pc of these councils pro-orange book, anti-SDP? I doubt it. And the fact that they've lost support doesn't automatically mean that is gone irretrievable. OK, they aren't getting the student vote back anytime soon. And there will be a backlash at the next election. But there will be a proportion of LD voters who are disaffected at present, but still see themselves as kind of anti-Tory centrists and who would flock back if they got rid of Clegg. Richards says that Miliband's team don't expect Clegg to lead them into the next election. So, much is fluid.
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How things have changed, that a Marxist now thinks that they need to offer comfort and aid to the ragged remnants of the SDP. Even the Greens have a more sincere stance than this "socialism".
 
Random said:
How things have changed, that a Marxist now thinks that they need to offer comfort and aid to the ragged remnants of the SDP. Even the Greens have a more sincere stance than this "socialism".
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Who's offering comfort? I'm coldly analysing the situation that the LDs find themselves in, and only in so far as it effects the political situation the left is faced with. I am not holding hands with Shirley Williams FFS!

It is quite possible that they are now too far down the road of the orange bookery. But it's not yet certain.
 
articul8 said:
fluid as regards whether they exist as a force which has any kind of appeal to people with a broadly SPD type politics, or whether they are now forever and eternally condemned to be a small rump of socially and economically (neo)liberal Cameroonian fellow-travellers.
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I think that question has been answered as it goes - once those left in local councils lose their seats it's over inside the party. They are losing members hand over fist and what is coming in is unambiguously neo-liberal. Outside, have you taken any notice of the wall of hatred from ex-lib-dems, the consistent repeated polls that indicate that soppy left vote is gone forever? The lib-dems themselves have. They knew it would happen before the coalition as well and said fuck it let them pick up their mat and walk. They are not going to be courting that vote every again.
 
articul8 said:
Who's offering comfort? I'm coldly analysing the situation that the LDs find themselves in, and only in so far as it effects the political situation the left is faced with. I am not holding hands with Shirley Williams FFS!

It is quite possible that they are now too far down the road of the orange bookery. But it's not yet certain.
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Are you blind? How can you not see the obvious right in front of your face? This is the easist thing in the bloody world to look at and come up with the right answer, yet you can't.
 
Random said:
"Too far" for what? This isn't cold analysis, you're eying them up as a potential mate, or engångsligg at least.
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palmgrenbok_865183c.jpg
 
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