who is responsible for the London attacks?

[ill-informed]

sorry, haven't time to read through this entire thread, but just wondered if the tube line closures prior to the bombings has been discussed.

i was told by a friend who commutes in london that the northern line was closed that morning at about 7:30 due to a fire, or so he was told.

 

[maomao]

But it's a fact that the eyewitness, Mr Lait, describes the metal hole as being "pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train". He also has no recollection of seeing "anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag" in a carriage which he says was occupied by "about 20-25" passengers, so less than a third full then with plenty of visibility as most passengers would have been seated.

This will be Mr Lait the distinguished ballistics expert right? While I'm not one myself I wouldn't imagine that a bomb on the floor of a tube train would make a perfect downwards hole in the floor. One under the train would however completely fuck the track and that line's up and running again already.

 

[maomao]

i was told by a friend who commutes in london that the northern line was closed that morning at about 7:30 due to a fire, or so he was told.

The Northern line was closed; this is why they think the bus bomber wasn't on a tube like the others.

 

[bigfish]

This will be Mr Lait the distinguished ballistics expert right?

Interesting theory - we should discount the testimony of an eyewitness, because even though he IS an eyewitness, he is NOT an 'expert' eyewitness, how novel!

High Court Judge: 'You say you saw the accused shoot the victim with an automatic pistol'

Witness: 'Yes your honour, I was only a few feet away when the shooting happened'.

High Court Judge: 'Are you an expert in ballistics?'

Witness: 'No your honour.'

High Court Judge: 'Case dismissed!'

Those crazy conspiracy theorists are stooping so low as to cite first-hand recollections of those at the scene, instead of buying into the Big Media myth currently being woven across all channels. Whatever will they think of next?

I wouldn't imagine that a bomb on the floor of a tube train would make a perfect downwards hole in the floor. One under the train would however completely fuck the track and that line's up and running again already.

A rudimentary knowledge of physics, rather than mere imagination, should be enough to inform you that an explosive charge placed on top of the carriage floor would blast the metal around any resulting hole in a downward direction. Conversely, an explosive charge placed under the floor would blast the metal in an "upward direction" - as Mr Lait has described in his personal account of what he saw.

 

[editor]

Those crazy conspiracy theorists are stooping so low as to cite first-hand recollections of those at the scene, instead of buying into the Big Media myth currently being woven across all channels. Whatever will they think of next?

You seem to have forgotten to answer this, so allow me to ask you again: are you now totally convinced that the Pentagon was hit by an American Airlines Boeing 757 passenger plane, because that was recalled in dozens of first-hand recollections from eye witness accounts, YES/NO?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I love this "metal hole" tosh, as if people were experts on how metal reacts when there is an explosion in a confined area.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Have you any evidence to support your assertions bigfish? What are the backgrounds of suicide bombers in Iraq?

Islamic extremism is clearly about more than economic conditions.

And have you anything to support your assertions? Prove it.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Have you any evidence to support your assertions bigfish? What are the backgrounds of suicide bombers in Iraq?

Islamic extremism is clearly about more than economic conditions.

And have you anything to support your assertions? Prove "Islamic extremism is clearly about more than economic conditions."

 

[Jazzz]

You seem to have forgotten to answer this, so allow me to ask you again: are you now totally convinced that the Pentagon was hit by an American Airlines Boeing 757 passenger plane, because that was recalled in dozens of first-hand recollections from eye witness accounts, YES/NO?

Oh editor, forever playing 'Paxman'... with regard to your diversion, many saw a plane. Some felt it was a large plane. I'm not sure if any could identify the 500mph blur as an 'American Airlines Boeing 757 Passenger Jet', and well if they did, they had extraordinary powers of observation.

On the contrary, the metal floor of the train was static and therefore any observation of it is much easier.

Also note that 'herd mentality' operates with our memories; they will easily adapt to fit what others say happened, but far less likely to go the other way.

 

[editor]

Oh editor, forever playing 'Paxman'... with regard to your diversion, many saw a plane. Some felt it was a large plane. I'm not sure if any could identify the 500mph blur as an 'American Airlines Boeing 757 Passenger Jet', and well if they did, they had extraordinary powers of observation.

Butt out please. I'm asking bigfish the question, not you, so please don't try making excuses for the big hole he's just dug himself into.

Moreover, I've no interest in hearing you drone on about your bonkers 9/11 theories all over again.

Thank you.

 

[Jazzz]

Well editor... you brought up the subject, and the rest of us lowly posters can't tell others to 'butt out' of any topic. Get a grip!

 

[TeeJay]

Where does Brazil fit into all this Jazzz?

 

[Jazzz]

If you're referring to the recent shooting, it's a tragic sign of the impending police state which we are being led down as the powers given to the police in the name of preventing terrorism ever increase.

In addition to being stopped and searched as routine, or held under house arrest without trial, they are now at the point where the state can simply execute us in the street, and we need not even look Arabic or Irish!

oh.. that guy on the bus did look a bit like me didn't he...

 

[Rentonite]

Why is it so hard for so many to accept what has happend?
It is a emotional resistance to the truth.
(it did not happen if I believe hard enough that it did not.)
Al quadiea blew up some bombs in London England.
ok, Thats what has happend
(My condolences to the Uk by the way)
Trying to explain it away, wont work
The resistance to accepting the Reality of the War we are in,
is understandable, No one wants to admit they have been wrong.
The Anti War Protesters are supporting the enemy
They dont think they are But they are.
the same enemy that would happily Kill them with joyful abandon.
it kinda makes ya feel stupid doesnt it.
I can understand, no one wants to be proven wrong.
From what it sounds like some will never retreat from their position
No matter how obviously wrong their position becomes.

It is too bad really
if the terrorist shitheads set off big bombs and destroy a few citys
(as they have been claiming)
What will the anti war protesters say then?

 

[TeeJay]

They will probably say "I told you so" or something incredibly useful like that.

Dr Jazzz - the police have had the legal power to shoot people for ages, if they feel lives are in danger. Have they been given any new powers recently?

 

[nino_savatte]

Why is it so hard for so many to accept what has happend?
It is a emotional resistance to the truth.
(it did not happen if I believe hard enough that it did not.)
Al quadiea blew up some bombs in London England.
ok, Thats what has happend
(My condolences to the Uk by the way)
Trying to explain it away, wont work
The resistance to accepting the Reality of the War we are in,
is understandable, No one wants to admit they have been wrong.
The Anti War Protesters are supporting the enemy
They dont think they are But they are.
the same enemy that would happily Kill them with joyful abandon.
it kinda makes ya feel stupid doesnt it.
I can understand, no one wants to be proven wrong.
From what it sounds like some will never retreat from their position
No matter how obviously wrong their position becomes.

It is too bad really
if the terrorist shitheads set off big bombs and destroy a few citys
(as they have been claiming)
What will the anti war protesters say then?

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But this is the best

The Anti War Protesters are supporting the enemy
They dont think they are But they are.

No, Rentoshite, your Leaders are supporting the 'enemy'. In fact, they are the enemy.

Where's freida when you need him?

 

[editor]

Well editor... you brought up the subject, and the rest of us lowly posters can't tell others to 'butt out' of any topic. Get a grip!

I'm asking bigfish for his personal opinion on a subject.

Unless you're him, it's got fuck all to do with you.

Now come along bigfish! Answer the question please!

 

[maomao]

A rudimentary knowledge of physics, rather than mere imagination, should be enough to inform you that an explosive charge placed on top of the carriage floor would blast the metal around any resulting hole in a downward direction. Conversely, an explosive charge placed under the floor would blast the metal in an "upward direction" - as Mr Lait has described in his personal account of what he saw.

You wouldn't even need a rudimentary knowledge of physics. There's a lot of research that shows we are actually born with a highly developed sense of how objects react to each other. However, trusting a single, probably concussed, eyewitness over all common sense and available evidence is extremely silly. Putting bombs underneath the trains doesn't make sense from any perspective. On top of this you'd have to have the compliance of all the emergency services personnel who attended the scene because it would be pretty obvious to them that the bomb was under the carriage if it was so. I suppose they're all in on it too? Take your head out of your arse and think about it sensibly.

 

[kyser_soze]

If you're referring to the recent shooting, it's a tragic sign of the impending police state which we are being led down as the powers given to the police in the name of preventing terrorism ever increase.

In addition to being stopped and searched as routine, or held under house arrest without trial, they are now at the point where the state can simply execute us in the street, and we need not even look Arabic or Irish!

oh.. that guy on the bus did look a bit like me didn't he...

This would be the 'impending police state' that everyone from US right wing militia types thru to the bearded left have been talking about since what, the 60s? That still hasn't arrived...

And AFAIK there have been no changes to the PTA or Emergency powers act since 7/7 which if they really wanted to bring in would mean a real police state - comms monitoring allowable as a matter of course rather than requiring a court order (and that wiretap information would be legal in court); all media censored centrally by govt for anything it doesn't like etc.

 

[Loki]

If you're referring to the recent shooting, it's a tragic sign of the impending police state which we are being led down as the powers given to the police in the name of preventing terrorism ever increase.

In addition to being stopped and searched as routine, or held under house arrest without trial, they are now at the point where the state can simply execute us in the street, and we need not even look Arabic or Irish!

It is a worrying development. Can't remember if I mentioned it on this or another of the many threads about this, but the police took advice from Israeli security forces that the best way to take out a suicide bomber is to shoot at the head. It's gone tragically wrong and I imagine the police and special forces (who were, as I understand it behind this shooting) will be rethinking their approach.

 

[editor]

Putting bombs underneath the trains doesn't make sense from any perspective. On top of this you'd have to have the compliance of all the emergency services personnel who attended the scene because it would be pretty obvious to them that the bomb was under the carriage if it was so. I suppose they're all in on it too? Take your head out of your arse and think about it sensibly.

If we went along with his fantasy tale, there's have to be loads of people involved in the cover up: there'd be the people who installed it, the maintenance staff who turned a blind eye to the device, the emergency services on the scene, track layers, tube inspectors, accident investigators, tube repair staff etc etc...

 

[fubert]

The Anti War Protesters are supporting the enemy
They dont think they are But they are.

oh for the love of fuck

<starts banging head off desk crying>

where the fuck do you start with this ? someone please, help me, where do you start ?

"you don't drink alcohol. therefore you are anti alcohol"

i bet you're a christian as well

 

[WouldBe]

On top of this you'd have to have the compliance of all the emergency services personnel who attended the scene because it would be pretty obvious to them that the bomb was under the carriage if it was so.

The police got the position of the Kings X / Russel Sq bomb wrong. Our own Badger Kitten had to correct them.

Who's to say they haven't got the position of the Aldgate bomb wrong as well.

 

[bigfish]

It's indescribably tedious and disgracefully dishonest.

PROJECTION!

So you're now completely convinced that the Pentagon was hit by a passenger plane then, because plenty of eye witnesses said so?

No. I'm not even remotely convinced that the Pentagon was hit by a passenger plane. Nor am I convinced that WTC7 collapsed due to an (8 hour) delayed action underground "shock-wave", as you seem to be.

While it is true to say that a number of eyewitnesses claim to have seen a passenger jet in the vicinity of the Pentagon, other eyewitnesses also claim to have seen both smaller and larger aircraft there too. Some witnesses even claim to have seen and heard what they describe as a missile. Others inside the Pentagon testify to smelling "cordite" and "gunsmoke".

The difference between your approach and mine to the eyewitness testimony, is that you arbitrarily strip out and discard all of the accounts that are in conflict with your personal belief - a belief that is identical in just about all respects to the official narrative.

There is no material evidence capable of establishing beyond any doubt the veracity of the claim that a passenger jet crashed into the Pentagon. No wings, no PW2000 engines and no rear tail assembly have ever been found or photographed at the crime site, to the best of my understanding. Isn't that incredible!?

 

[Static]

It is a worrying development. Can't remember if I mentioned it on this or another of the many threads about this, but the police took advice from Israeli security forces that the best way to take out a suicide bomber is to shoot at the head. It's gone tragically wrong and I imagine the police and special forces (who were, as I understand it behind this shooting) will be rethinking their approach.

That it has my friend, no doubt they will as you say be rethinking thier approach, but is that obviously the best route to take?
However tragic the loss of life of Jean Charles de Menezes in Stockwell, the authorities still need the powers they have been granted(in my opinion) to combat the threat of suicide bombers!
Just imagine if the guy had been strapped with c4 this would be a whole different kettle of fish!
I am not saying they didn't fuck it up royaly , because they did. I just feel to take any suspect less seriously would be a mistake (in my opinion)!

 

[bigfish]

... I just feel to take any suspect less seriously would be a mistake (in my opinion)!

Sounds like a perfect recipe for the summary execution of lots of innocent people, to me.

Zeig Heil!

 

[Static]

I am sorry you feel that way my friend!
Lets just hope no-one you or i know ends up on a tube with a guy the police/special forces didn't manage to stop!
I am not meaning to sound like a nazi and to be honest I think it's a little unfair you suggest it of me!
I dislike the bastards as much as the next man in normal life(in general, no disrespect meant to any straight upstanding officers) . I am afraid we are at war (or at least a very high state of security), and as I don't fancy arming myself and patrolling the streets of London I would prefer people with the appropiate powers to do it for me, wouldn't you?

 

[editor]

No. I'm not even remotely convinced that the Pentagon was hit by a passenger plane. Nor am I convinced that WTC7 collapsed due to an (8 hour) delayed action underground "shock-wave", as you seem to be.

Right. So when a solitary eye witness account from a dazed survivor has potential to support your last fruitloop theory (while ignoring the hundreds of emergency services staff, tube maintenance staff etc etc) then it becomes a vital, over-riding piece of indisputable rock-solid evidence, but when the testimony is coming from dozens of independent eye witnesses it can be safely dismissed out of hand because it doesn't support your crackpot theory?

You've been rumbled as fraud chum. You can't have it both ways.

Why do you think all the emergency services, ambulance staff, explosives experts, terrorism officers, rail workers, accident investigators are all covering up your explosion "evidence", by the way?

I'd say that they're all more knowledgeable than a dazed surivier, so are they all (whispers) in on it too?

 

[Static]

Bigfish

I believe "Sit down" would be the appropriate comment here matey!!
Well said Editor! 10/10

 

[Static]

On the contrary, the metal floor of the train was static and therefore any observation of it is much easier.

I dispute being the metal floor in question!!!
Liable, slander, outrage!!!