krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Not only Trump but Bernie, De Niro and Roy Keane make an appearance.
What stupid shit has Trump done today?
- Thread starter Yossarian
- Start date
Not only Trump but Bernie, De Niro and Roy Keane make an appearance.
gosub
~#
Agree but think he's going to suffer death by a thousand cuts amongst a base that cheered for 'draining the swamp'
With all his apparent bumbling and stupidity, he's actually a brilliant politician, in that he's convinced his base he's not a politician......but one of them.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
-Trump
I dunno man, this seems like one of the more sensible things Trump has ever said.
-Putin
I honestly don't understand why seemingly intelligent people seem to prefer the idea of a cold war with Russia. I'm genuinely concerned about how wholesale and across the board the Russiagate hysteria has climbed, had things been like this during the Cuban Missile Crisis, or Able Archer, or any number of previous near-misses between these two nuclear super-powers I don't think we'd be alive today. Merely expressing doubt re Russiagate or even the idea that the presidents of the United States and the Russian Federation should meet and discuss issues will have one dismissed as a putin-bot, a crazy space-cadet or a strong-man idolator, it's incredibly depressing. Out of interest some things subjects the two presidents discussed (entirely too breifly in my opinion):
Ukraine
Syria
Accords toward the control of Cyber Warfare
Terrorism
Arms Control
Trade
These are what I recall off-head after watching this:
Please explain to me honestly and without malice why you think it's better to dismiss the whole effort of nuclear powers talking to each other in summits by use of these cartoonish Russian-gangster/Manhcurian-Candidate Hollywood-script type characterizations supplied to us by factions within the US power-structure that dominate the media? I just don't get how the narratives supplied by these people have become so... fashionable. I feel like the brakes have come off and the train is accelerating and people even on forums like this are just well into it and agree "down with brakes!" all in a cloud of terms like "highly likely" and "probably"- the new rigorous-enough I guess.
wot the fuck is happening?
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
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taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
This is the new disinfo talking point: if you don’t like trump then you are fine with WW3. Binary bibble.
It’s possible to work for peace without acting like a long time intel asset.
It’s possible to work for peace without acting like a long time intel asset.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
It's similar to the Republican talking point on separating immigrant children from their parents. Either you support this monstrous policy or you must support letting all the "MS13 criminals" into the country. The array of choices are much broader than that.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
But i dont like Trump, i think he's a complete nob. Whats alarming is that even Trump gets the basic idea that rsstarting cold wars (already declared a done-deal by many) is something we who live on Earth just dont need. People on reddit for example reckon Trump is "weak" for not "standing up to Russia"... How? Against what?
i would have thought this is the sort of strongman bollocks we want to get away from, not trials of masculinity or summik but rational realist pragmatism in a world where all states have as their foundation the accumilated comrpomses of raw force. You got force, we got force... thus force cancels eachother out so we need negotiation as a further arrangement of compromise right?
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
So you think the way Trump went about talking to Putin was wrong, and theres a better way to have gone about it? I can beleive that, Trump gets a lot of things wrong, even his position on NATO amounts to wanting more money for the same tub of Elephant Powder, rather than questioning if we even need Elephant Powder in the first place. (sprinkle a little elephant powder to keep rampaging elephants away, sure its expensive stuff but worth it, see how we remain free of rampaging elephants).
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Pretty much. I think if he's not complicit, he is a bit naive and completely inexperienced. There are better people out there to prepare the initial negotiations. As far as I'm concerned, a President's main job in this instance is to let diplomatic staff do their jobs and show up occasionally to take all the credit.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I don't know exactly how the American system works, but I think that as POTUS only he can take the step to meet the POTRF or whatever head of state. After agreeing to bullet points that would be when what you said comes into effect no?Only the POTUS can say "right, I'm off to speak to China/Russia and discuss how we should proceed" etc. You couldn't expect to meet and discuss meaningfully with Putin in this case because you sent an underling.
Anyway it's the job of the president, naive or inexperienced or no it's like Spidermans dictum on responsibility init.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Them's the stakes. ABM treaty cancelled in 2001 iirc didn't just get forgotten by the media and then disappear, these are the continuing results. And I have to say re dismissing concerns about not kicking off world war three... there aren't any safety lines on this international policy re Russia thing, well there was at least a rope you could hold on to but that's since been cut away by the same spirit of the times that wants to deride a US president for speaking to the Russian president. Barmy, imo. I'd rather Bernie Sanders had been the one at the summit across the table from Putin, but it was Trump... nonetheless the talks need to happen, and must continue to happen. Jaw jaw an that.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
Yeah I'm not gonna click on the Roy Keane ones...he might find out.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Talks need to happen? Not like these "talks" they don't.
Neither Sanders or Clinton would have arranged a meeting with Putin like this one. They wouldn't have gone in without being briefed to the hilt and with a full team of experienced senior diplomats behind them before, during and after the meeting. They would have had copious notes made and they wouldn't have only talked about issues in very general terms. Bear in mind, Clinton served as Secretary of State, so is an experienced diplomat, but still would never in a million years consider "winging it" like Trump did.
The Russian Government can now claim that Trump promised them pink unicorns on unicycles, and there's no way to prove he didn't, because he did not make a record of the meeting. And because they DO have a record, they can selectively release either portions of it that will be incriminating (because I bet there will be some doozies), or edit two hours of Trump's voice recordings to make it look like he said any thing that they want.
Whatever motivates Trump - narcissism, greed, ego, revenge, sociopathy, or a combination, he is an incredibly weak leader who thinks he's strong, and is surrounded by yes men and women who's livelihood depends on fawning over and agreeing with him.
Trump, his "team," and GOP politicians lie, lie about lying and/or justify his lies. The lying isn't to deceive, because it's all out in the open. "Mr President, you said this on this video here." "No, I didn't say that. Fake news." And we're just supposed to accept the "Alternative Facts," and move on. Lying like this is about power and control, not deception. It's to demonstrate that the regime can lie, do anything they want, and lie some more, and the people can do absolutely fuck all about it, because their control over the people is absolute.
I'm still struggling to take anyone seriously who looks at the current crisis in the US, with massive implications for the entire planet, and thinks this is all just the same as it's always been.
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CRI
Registered Chooser
Trump aims to end automatic protections for some species
Wouldn't be surprised if Trump specifically wants to nuke the Monarch Butterfly - state insect of Illinois, Obama's home state.
Wouldn't be surprised if Trump specifically wants to nuke the Monarch Butterfly - state insect of Illinois, Obama's home state.
CRI
Registered Chooser
From the Start, Trump Has Muddied a Clear Message: Putin Interfered
Then, there was this from last August.
Nine months, nine prominent Russians dead - CNN
Then, there was this from last August.
Nine months, nine prominent Russians dead - CNN
CRI
Registered Chooser
Republicans REALLY don't want anyone to know what happened in the meeting.
Republicans block subpoena for Trump-Putin summit interpreter
(Not "tabled" in the British sense, of "putting it on the table for discussion." In the American sense, it means putting off or ignoring - as in "putting under the table.)
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I don't think things are the same as they've always been, this is dangerously worryingly different. The Trump effect is having a serious impact on the relations of the United States has with the other massive pile of nukes on the planet. By all means sort your politics out- frankly I don't think trying to blame big bad Russia for these issues helps anyone. I for one am not inclined to believe fuck all that the same people (media, politicians, spooks or brass) that bought us 45 minutes, Aluminum tubes, Viva Libya (with Manchester splashback but don't mind about that) and all the other bollocks in the past couple of decades now siddle up as one massive hive-mind to tell me this latest narrative they're obviously very keen that I swallow whole-sale. Tell you wot the way I think of a lot of people I see from forums to facebook has plunged since seeing how easy it is for the full-spectrum media to have everyone eating their troofs out the hands of the same dodgy short-sighted bastards that have a trillion-dollar military industry to justify. These state-backed conspiracy theories are so outlandish it's alarming that anyone takes em seriously... but they do. Is it becoz of the years of Russian gangsters in movies and the like that helps it all slide in so easy? As a black man you bet I recognize how it works, people know the script in this movie, who is to play the role of whom, the copious amounts of Ruski stereotypes that the Believers come out with make no doubt re the level we're dealing with here. But this is nuclear geopolitics for chrissakes!
Tell me, do you think it was an act of war for Russia to have meddled in the US elections? (I don't think they did but that's admittedly just my opinion) because if you do think that it was an attack- then surely it was an attack in a war the United States already started when they diddled with Russia's elections just after the fall of the Sovjet Union. They call Putin an authoritarian president but were totally happy when Yeltsin gathered all that presidential power to himself in the first place (Putins not changed the Russian constitution since he took power apparently, all his presidential power is the same setup he inherited that the West was happy for Yeltsin to grab). Come to think of it- where was all this shocked outrage when Americas boy Yeltsin had his tanks fire on the Russian parliament? Even this year the United States has been busy hosting events aimed at supporting the opposition in Russia while at the same time squealing about Russian interference in US politics. Now they've arrested some happless lobbyist and indicted a bunch of Russian military officers because they definitely want all the evidence to come out in court (hint- indicting military officers makes as much sense in the pursuit of truth as it would if Russia called on US officers to come face trial in Russia, that being zilch, which is probably why it was done). I don't say this because 'whataboutism' but rather as an example of how malleable and discretionary the grounds for outrage are. Like Lenin said re political violence init, it's not what was done but who it was done to.
And it's all so fucking petty as well, Russia made a world cup and it was alright, now comes the tsunami of shite to remind everyone how evil Russia is, the exact same game-plan as happened around the Winter Olympics when the coup was carried out in the Ukraine. And then suddenly more Novichok appears and takes out a couple of people, and suddenly just before the summit Meuller decides it's time to start indicting people... I mean the whole thing is so obvious and so orchestrated... I just really resent that this shit actually works (and that people can actually die for it). And it's not even that I like Russia particularly, a flawed society in its own special way like anywhere else. No, it's the cynical but effective manner in which our rulers can just manipulate our society in to believing whatever stupid fucking shite they want even with a Very Final War as the prize. Sic-em boy! Sic-em! that's what this amounts to, people are killed and we just sweep on secure in our own sense of superiority. I just can't believe everyone buys into it but they do! Boris Johnson sez something and everyones like "yeah, what Boris Johnson just said makes sense. Hear Hear" I mean christ!
Bah forget it, what happens happens, resume bashing away at your pinatas as directed. "lolwut, putinbot, space-cadet, conspiraloon." There, saved energy for ya.
\rant
CRI
Registered Chooser
CRI
Registered Chooser
I think the rules of what constitutes "war" have changed with the advent of technology. Most things have changed because of the internet. I mean 20 years ago, if you told someone your identity had been stolen, or a stranger used your credit card without it leaving your wallet, they'd think you'd lost your marbles.
I don't think the Trump/Putin relationship has anything to do with ideology. I think it is everything to do with two people, and those close to them amassing wealth and power in their respective spheres, having no regard for the rule of law and certainly no regard for human rights, or the environment, if any of those things get in the way of their goals - of amassing more wealth and power. Their acolytes are motivated by ideology, but that's a different thing. Both men (and in Trump's case, I'd widen it to people in his administration and GOP politicians) harness and exploit the beliefs of their followers to gain and retain power and wealth, but only need to make the most prefunctory efforts at showing they are "at one" with the beliefs of their people, and that's enough to keep them in the fold.
I don't think there is any doubt that the Russian government, or people working on their behalf, were involved in subverting the US elections. There were plenty other things that stacked the deck against Clinton and Democratic Parties, including voter suppression and intimidation, and some dodgy voting counts in swing states. I'm sure their preferred candidate was Trump with his long track record of unethical behaviour, craving for flattery and approval, so a piece of piss to influence as opposed to Clinton. I thing the Russian government's goal in all this was really just to get rid of the sanctions that were crippling their economy, and specifically the Magnitsky Act, which impacted most on rich Russians including those in the ruling elite. Putin probably wonders how the fuck anyone takes the clown Trump seriously, and with his intelligence background, hardly has to lift a finger to manipulate Trump. Proving a bit harder to push over the rest of the US Government, but getting there.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Any Trump supporting relatives I have are dead to me. Thankfully there are none in my immediate family, but if there were, I wouldn't piss on them of they were on fire.
This little "viral post" is just one of the hundreds conjured up from anecdotes and blatant lies for the purpose of making bigoted white people feel justified in their bigotry and their backing of bigoted politicians. They'll do mental back flips to rationalise what their dear leaders do if it means they'll get what they want (e.g. abortion banned, gays back in the closet, brown people expelled, etc.) They want it passed on over and over, because the more people who nod that this is okay, the more they'll feel justified.
They hold racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, etc. views, but they don't want anyone to think they are bad people. They are deeply wounded at the very suggestion that they may be something other than "good people." Remember the dramatic response to Clinton saying some Trump supporters were deplorable? More recently, Press Secretary Sanders and other administration/GOP people who were refused service or challenged publicly were painted as helpless victims of "uncivilised" treatment. They believe they are entitled to respect, because in their minds, they are still "good," regardless of their beliefs.
They know on some level that they are being duplicitous, which is why they need the constant reinforcement that viral posts like this, Fox News, Right Wing talk radio, Evangelical Preachers, etc. give them.
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krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Ukraine, downed plane, assasinated critics, jailed opponents, murdered journalists, spies, meddling in US and European affairs, nerve agents, Assadists. Of course the Putin admin is innocent.
None of this is happening.
Seems some want the interprater to spill what she heard in the meeting.
Normally I would agree but this is far from normal.
However, she must be treated with the respect she deserves because she isn't one of Trump's monkeys, just a long term professional doing her job.
Normally I would agree but this is far from normal.
However, she must be treated with the respect she deserves because she isn't one of Trump's monkeys, just a long term professional doing her job.
Acting ?????????
Apologies to monkeys - they're way better than any of Trump's idiots
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