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What stupid shit has Trump done today?

Do we agree on that? When Carlo Giuliani was murdered by a fascist, you said he deserved it.

Complete misrepresents my position; Giuliani was part of a mob attacking armed police, he was photographed moments before he was shot charging at the jeep with a fire extinguisher. I said that under those circumstances, he must have known the potential consequences of his actions. I never said he deserved it.

I don't know if the cop was a fascist or not, he was a conscript into the Italian Military Police and barely older than Guiliani. What evidence do you have that Mario Placanica is a fascist?.
 
Wheels seem to be coming off. It surely must be a matter of time now before the Republicans decide that he is only going to get worse, and that the damage done to them by impeaching him will be less than the damage done by holding on for 3 and a half more years.
Once he signs a "tax reform" bill, he will no longer be of use to his party and hopefully they will ditch him. Then, It'll be evil Pence who will pardon him for any Russigate stuff, but he doesn't seem totally crazy.
 
Donald Trump was forced to disband two White House business councils disintegrating around him on Wednesday in the wake of his controversial remarks about the weekend violence in Charlottesville.

The Strategic and Policy Forum and the White House Manufacturing Jobs Initiative were both dissolved as corporate leaders continued to resign.

Trump claimed in a tweet that this was his decision, writing: “Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!”

The collapse of the advisory bodies follows seven different corporate leaders stepping down from the two councils in recent days including the CEOs of both Campbell’s Soup and 3M on Wednesday.

Trump had previously stated that resignations from both panels were of no consequence. “For every CEO that drops out of the Manufacturing Council, I have many to take their place. Grandstanders should not have gone on. JOBS!” he said Trump on Twitter on Tuesday.

Wednesday’s abrupt decision came after Trump confidante Stephen Schwarzman, chief executive of the Blackstone Group, held a conference call for about a dozen members of the strategic and policy forum who decided to abandon it, the New York Times reported. Executives from the manufacturing council had been due to hold a similar call on Wednesday afternoon, the paper added.

On Wednesday, corporate leaders who sat on the councils raced to denounce Trump’s comments about Charlottesville and to support the dissolution of the advisory bodies. Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan and a member of Strategic and Policy Forum, said in a statement: “I strongly disagree with President Trump’s reaction to the events that took place in Charlottesville over the past several days.” He added that he agree with the council’s decision to disband.

Trump disbands business councils as CEOs flee after Charlottesville remarks

Rats deserting a sinking ship helmed by a racist buffoon president.
 
Stop Saying 'Alt-Left'

It remains unclear where Trump first heard about the "alt-left"—Sean Hannity talked about the dangers of the alt-left on his show in November, and the term has been used in conservative circles to denigrate leftist activists. But "alt-left" wasn't cooked up in some right-wing think tank as a brilliant rhetorical weapon to use against the resistance warriors. Rather, it was popularized by Hillary Clinton supporters as a slur to dismiss those to the left of them.

I know what I'm talking about, having been accused of being part of the alt-left myself. According to a cursory Twitter search, the first time someone threw that term at me was in October 2016, undoubtedly due to both my penchant for vulgarity and my outspoken support of Sanders.

Back then, the phrase was largely synonymous with "Bernie bro"—which, if you recall, was an invention of the Clinton campaign used to frame Sanders supporters as misogynists. The "alt-left" became somewhat of a mainstream liberal talking point in the summer of 2016, thanks to prominent pundits like Nation writer and MSNBC contributor Joan Walsh, Center for American Progress President Neera Tanden, and Media Matters founder Eric Boehlert.
 
Complete misrepresents my position; Giuliani was part of a mob attacking armed police, he was photographed moments before he was shot charging at the jeep with a fire extinguisher. I said that under those circumstances, he must have known the potential consequences of his actions. I never said he deserved it.

I don't know if the cop was a fascist or not, he was a conscript into the Italian Military Police and barely older than Guiliani. What evidence do you have that Mario Placanica is a fascist?.

The man you've defended at length, and time and again, stood as a candidate for Alleanza Nazionale, the successor party (i.e. a rebranding for electability) of the neo-fascist Movimento Sociale Italiano.
 
The man you've defended at length, and time and again,

No, I've defended his actions in that scenario, with a violent mob attacking a police vehicle shooting a protester about to attack you can be considered self-defence, and given those circumstances the officer's reaction was justified. The European Court agree.


stood as a candidate for Alleanza Nazionale, the successor party (i.e. a rebranding for electability) of the neo-fascist Movimento Sociale Italiano.

I'm sorry where is your evidence that I knew this when the previous discussion was taking place? I'm fuzzy as to the timing but I think that thread happened before he stood as a candidate for Alleanza Nazionale, so I'd have to be precognitive. According to his Wikipedia page he appears to also have been charged with several sexual assaults (I think, my Italian is rusty). Are you going to accuse me of "defending" a rapist as well?

Am I allowed to revise my opinion of what happened, when new facts are presented to me? Or is that a crime to your little group?
 
it's all a bit


Hicks is the bullet necklace one

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Edit no sorry thats Katrina Pierson, clearly. Hope Hicks is the 27-year old press secretary who got into a screaming match with Cory L in NY.
 
Fair number of these pieces around in high profile places now:
Centrist Pundits Paved Way for Trump’s ‘Alt-Left’ False Equivalence

Here now too The Myth of the Alt-Left

By Sam Kriss, best summary yet I think.

After Trump announced the existence of the alt-left on live TV, media outlets scurried to tell the world exactly where the term emerged from. CBS explains that it “came out of the conservative media.” CNN, quoting a director at the Anti-Defamation League, describes it as a “made-up term used by people on the right.” Heavy.com writes that “the term ‘alt-left’ began being used by the online conservative media in 2016 before it slowly migrated to more mainstream conservative voices, like Fox News’ Sean Hannity.” (Hannity, who repeatedly uses the term on his TV show, seems to be getting widespread credit.) The British Telegraph newspaper, meanwhile, flatters the president with a power of logodaedaly he definitely doesn’t have, claiming the phrase was “coined by Mr Trump” himself.

None of these explanations is really true. The term “alt-left” was probably simultaneously invented hundreds or thousands of times, always bearing a slightly different meaning depending on its inventor. But up until now, the people who most forcefully pushed the idea of an alt-left weren’t Nazis or 4chan posters or anyone else in the orbit of Trump and pro-Trump Republicans trying to invent a mythical opposite to the alt-right. The alt-left is, first and foremost, a figment of centrist Democrats.

Something like “alt-left” was always going to happen; it’s a product of whatever it is in our brains that conditions them to think in terms of opposites. As soon as everyone starts talking about the “alt-right”—that inchoate and incoherent grouping of Nazis, Klansmen, resentful failsons sweating from video games and chicken fingers, cynical media wannabes, bloviating internet commenters who think they’re Ignatius J. Reilly, and others who think they’re the Joker—that word seems to sit on one side of a seesaw, across from a silence waiting to be filled. If there’s an alt-right, there must, somewhere, somehow, be something called an alt-left, otherwise the universe is unbalanced. And while the universe is unbalanced—everywhere, from the points of terrifying heat scattered haphazardly across a lonely void, to the murder and oppression that break out constantly across the world and are never met with justice—for a lot of mediocre intellects, good judgment basically consists of pretending that everything balances out somehow, and all the ledgers are even. Something like the alt-right sticks out, a lexical blasphemy: to put the world in order, you have to invent something equivalent on the left.

Probably the first people to use the term were a small, strange band of alt-right offshoots with a few low-traffic websites, rejecting some of the reactionary-libertarian elements in traditional far-right ideology for some kind of Herrenvolk social democracy, a Strasserite-inflected vision where there are slightly higher taxes but no Jews allowed. These were undoubtedly the only people to have used “alt-left” unpejoratively, to describe themselves. While the alt-right has always been an organized, self-declared movement—a badge proudly worn by neo-Nazis like Richard Spencer to launder their racism—the alt-left is only an epithet, something that slung to help displace the contradictions in some other ideology. In the months up to August 2016, when Hillary Clinton delivered her speech in Reno, Nevada, lambasting internet Nazis, the epithetic use of the term was growing: The alt-left could mean Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, or Jill Stein and the Green Party, or teens inventing hundreds of new genders for themselves on Tumblr, or Marxist-Leninists sympathetic to Syria, Iran and North Korea. Mostly, use of the term was accompanied by a vague hesitancy—is this a thing? Could it be a thing? Should it be a thing? But the people using it all had one thing in common: They were fervent supporters of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, and they resented anyone on the left whose enthusiasm didn’t seem to match theirs.

After Clinton dragged the alt-right into the world’s headlines, use of “alt-left” exploded. Conservatives started using it too, as a reflexive insult lobbed at the Democrats in general, but for the most part it kept its original meaning. For the soon-to-be-doomed Clintonites, it was an incredibly useful term. If Clinton were simply to the right of Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump to the right of her, then her project could be seen by some on the left as one that meant drifting toward Trumpism, an unacceptable compromise with evil. The invention of the alt-left allowed centrist liberals to pretend that something entirely different was going on: They were sandwiched between two sets of frothing fanatics who secretly had a lot in common with each other. It established their particular brand of liberalism, possibly encompassing a few “moderate Republicans,” as the only reasonable ground, besieged by alts
 
Very important here.

This red-baiting sense of the term “alt-left” continued to be used right up until the murders in Charlottesville. (This landmark Vanity Fair article on the subject, published in March this year, gives you a flavor of the general tone of the discussion; there have been endless similar essays, but really they’re all the same.) Even as the Nazis and the Klan assembled in Virginia, some liberals were continuing to insist that the murderous far-right and the socialist left were essentially the same, or at the very least balanced each other out. One Twitter user captioned a picture of torch-wielding fascists with the words “when you critique Bernie Sanders.” Clinton insider Neera Tanden used the march as an opportunity to once again conjure up the fantasy that there are some on “the alt left who want to join with the fascists.” Mieke Eoyang, a director at the centrist Third Way think tank, mockingly proclaimed, “if the Bernie Bros wanted to make a show of force on behalf of progressive values, Saturday in Charlottesville would be a good time.” But as it happens, the people out in force in Virginia to oppose the far-right were not, for the most part, Clinton Democrats. They were socialists and communists: the Democratic Socialists on America, the Industrial Workers of the World, the Workers World Party and Black Lives Matter, among others. They were the alt-left.

Now that Trump has added “alt-left” to his armory of insults, many of these same centrist constituencies are appalled that anyone could ever draw a moral equivalence between fascists and those opposing them. But this is exactly what they did, and what they’ve been doing for over a year. There’s a pattern here. Immediately after the 2016 election, liberals pioneered the notion of “fake news”—made up or poorly sourced, inaccurate and hyperpartisan media, generated for furious clicks, misleading wide sectors of the population. It didn’t take long for the right to reclaim the term, hurling it back at the mainstream press. (After all, weren’t their breathless warnings over WMD as fake as anything the right-wing internet has to offer?) Now, “fake news” is firmly established in the reactionary lexicon, and liberals are horrified by it. They should be; it’s a brutish, philistine epithet, and never more so than when it’s coughed up from the throat of Donald Trump—but it’s their monster. They forgot that the criticisms they make of their enemies can also apply to themselves, and that, as long as that’s true, their clever production of phrases will always be immediately appropriated by the right. “Alt-left” has followed exactly the same course. The term was meant to imply that the socialist left and the most despicable creatures of the right are on the same moral plane. But it’s possible to make any number of connections: If liberals and fascists are both terrified by the notion of an active, unashamed leftist movement, and if they express that terror with the same nonsense phrase, what else might they have in common
 
Shocking new development: Trump is full of shit in his characterization of 'leftist aggressors' at Charlottesville:

onald Trump said many things over the course of his press conference yesterday. Some of those things cannot be allowed to stand.

I was in Charlottesville over the weekend, and Trump’s characterization of the events there is flatly wrong.

Let’s talk about what really happened.

On Friday night, hundreds of white supremacists and neo-fascists had a torchlight march across the University of Virginia’s campus, a place to which they had not been invited. They openly chanted fascist slogans like “blood and soil” and “Jews will not replace us”.

When they reached a much smaller group of counter-protesters gathered around a statue of Thomas Jefferson, they surrounded them, hurled verbal abuse and then commenced beating them with lit torches and fists, and using pepper spray on them. Some protesters told me they had been sprayed with lighter fluid while naked flames burned all around them.

Some of the people trapped around the statue responded with fists and pepper spray, but their actions, and their posture, was entirely defensive from the start.

The “alt-right”, on the other hand, came prepared for violence, and they were spoiling for it.

That night, it was not the left that “came charging, with clubs in their hands”. Quite the contrary.

On Saturday, again, the far-right protesters came primed for violence, and most counter-protesters adopted an entirely defensive posture.

Hundreds of white supremacists, mostly young men, marched to Emancipation Park through the streets of Charlottesville in military-style formations.

Again, they chanted fascist slogans. They carried the colors of openly fascist organizations, which promote white supremacy, antisemitism, misogyny and the idea of a white ethno-state.

Many wore helmets and carried shields. Many carried clubs and chemical sprays. All of these were used on counter-protesters. And initially, the counter-protesters I saw from my perch at the south-east corner of the park used entirely passive methods to try to block the passage of the far-right groups.

As one of the far right’s formations approached Emancipation Park, I witnessed one of their number spray mace into the face of a young, female counter-protester who had done no more than talk to them.

I saw a large man, around 6ft 3in, dressed in full riot gear, swinging a club at any counter-protester he could find.

I saw a group of 250 or more white-shirted young men shove aside and threaten 20 members of the clergy who had linked arms at the top of a set of stairs, and hurl racial epithets at Cornel West.

At the time they did this, they were being monitored by counter-protesters, some of whom were themselves armed. But the fact that they were watching was welcomed by West, who said: “We would have been crushed like cockroaches if it were not for the anarchists and the antifascists.”

I was near the bottom of the stairs that West was standing at the top of. I think he’s right. And bear in mind that he and everyone else in the counter-protest were promoting the values of antiracism, feminism, LGBT rights and equality.

There was violence from some counter-protesters. But most, like Heather Heyer, who was allegedly killed by one of the far-right marchers, were entirely peaceful.

Heyer’s killing and the injury of 20 people with a car was the culmination of a day where the right had come prepared for violence, appeared to be thirsting for it and committed far more of it than the other side. It was also a day when they gathered in the name of white supremacy.

So Tuesday, when the president said: “You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent,” he was doing no more and no less than apologizing for fascist violence.

I was in Charlottesville. Trump was wrong about violence on the left | Jason Wilson
 
The Guardian strikes a pose; don't criticise Trump or else the 'white working class' will be forever lost behind a 'deafening wall' never to be reached again. Suggested plan of action? "Tolerate him". Yeah that'll work.
With every sneer, liberals just make Trump stronger | Simon Jenkins

Beats having to think up some new bullshit in the silly season I guess. But these bourgeois types who prattle on about "the white working class" never seem to be so concerned with working class people of different colours. No idea why that would be :hmm:

Nor do they bother to reflect on how the huge part played by middle and upper class people in perpetuating racism.

It's not so much a straw man as a whole parade of them - telling people what they think and why they think it, before slagging them off for it and all with the handy cover of a fake and racialised class narrative which at once over-attributes racism to the working class, ignores the interests of huge amounts of working class people (thus dividing the class) and attributing implying the victimhood of be because they are white, not because they are working class (which many are not)
 
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No, I've defended his actions in that scenario, with a violent mob attacking a police vehicle shooting a protester about to attack you can be considered self-defence, and given those circumstances the officer's reaction was justified. The European Court agree.




I'm sorry where is your evidence that I knew this when the previous discussion was taking place? I'm fuzzy as to the timing but I think that thread happened before he stood as a candidate for Alleanza Nazionale, so I'd have to be precognitive. According to his Wikipedia page he appears to also have been charged with several sexual assaults (I think, my Italian is rusty). Are you going to accuse me of "defending" a rapist as well?

Am I allowed to revise my opinion of what happened, when new facts are presented to me? Or is that a crime to your little group?

You were told several times on those threads about the political affiliations of those particular cabanieri but it didn't seem to concern you then. Of course you couldn't know that the murderer you spent so much time defending would turn out to be a sex case and politically active fascist at that point it's just enlightening in retrospect. Of course you're allowed to change your opinion; you do so regularly anyway.

Anyway, apparently we're not worried about fascism anymore now, it's all about a temporary dip in Amazon's stock price. Please do tell us when we're allowed to discuss something else.
 
One of the alt-righters whom Trump declared to be the equivalent of anti-nazi protesters:

The neo-Nazi, who said in the VICE interview that he would like to see someone “more racist than Trump” in the White House, with his ideal candidate for president being someone who did not “give his daughter away to a Jew,” provided a contact number for police to get in touch if there was a warrant out for his arrest.

White supremacist who was 'ready for violence' cries over possible Charlottesville arrest warrant
 
Here now too The Myth of the Alt-Left

By Sam Kriss, best summary yet I think.
And touched on in another by Owen Jones
Owen Jones said:
What is striking about these so-called centrists is they offer little evidence of self-reflection about their plight. Their decline isn’t due to their own failures, but the irrationality and madness of others. They are the grownups, and infants on a sugar-high of populism have taken over. Hillary Clinton lost to a candidate widely dismissed as less likely to win the presidency than an asteroid crashing to Earth. But no blame was attributed to her political outlook: it was all Russian intervention and misogyny, and nothing else.
 
Jesus christ let it go. I never defended him, I defended his actions.

Ok, if all you did was defend this fascist's killing of an antifascist, that's cool. :facepalm:

No wonder you'd prefer this be 'let go'. It's shameful.

Maybe think twice about what you post, eh?
 
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