What are you baking?
- Thread starter kittyP
- Start date
My guess'd be:
- Dough not distributed evenly in tin
- Starter not distributed evenly within dough
- Two sides of dough proved at different temperatures
- Uneven distribution of heat in oven.
Each of the last two could be ameliorated by turning the tin half way through proving or part way through baking. (More steam, or a baking stone, might also help give the hotter side more of a chance to rise).
Or I might be completely wrong
Slashing it before putting it in the oven would also give a cleaner rise, and less cracks (ATM, the gases have nowhere to go as they expand, so they're pushing through arbitrary cracks / weak points that they find. I tend to get really big splits along the seam - like the long crack that's developed at the rhs - when I bake in tins). Though that might not be what you want.
Ty! I'm not really sure I have a method. But writing this out makes me think perhaps I have.That is very beautiful mrs quoad. Did you ever post your method, or is it a closely guarded secret? I'd be interested to know how you do it
Starter fed w/ 200g flour & 160 water most days. (And bc it's fed most days, there's no need for a levain, because it's constantly ridiculously active come afternoon time.)
Mix about 300g starter, 700-750mls water, 1kg flour. Leave for 20-60 mins, depending on what's happening.
Add 20g salt, set the dough hook going for a few mins.
Put in a big oiled plastic tub. Aim to fold once every 20-30mins (lift a bit from the side, pin to the middle, to right around the whole dough ball twice), but probably forget.
After 2hrs of folding, put on kitchen surface, pre-shape. Leave for 20-40 mins. Re-shape and put in banneton.
Leave to prove for 2ish hours, or put in fridge til morning.
Either way, then ensure oven (w/ baking stone) is pre-heated for an hour. At about 220-230. And with plenty of steam.
Slash. Place in oven on peel.
And bake for... 38 mins for ^^^ that.
I should add that I genuinely can't tell when a loaf is done by the sound it makes, so use a probe thermometer looking for an internal temp of 200ish to 205 degrees. I'll accept 190 if I'm flustered, lazy, and / or in a hurry.
And getting a new / posh oven that actually is at the heat it says it is, in every area of it, really has helped make better loaves.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Thanks mrs quoad. I'd love a top of the line Kenwood, sadly cash flow doesn't allow it, so its more between that and other machines it's price range. Just to confuse things apparently watts isn't a very useful measurement at least when comparing different makes.
Good shout on looking else where for flour and seeds. Would like organic, particularly with wholemeal as the outside holds more pesticides.
Although it tasted good I suspect that dough was to wet as I didn't fold it enough. It just seemed so messy to handle, so suspect it wasn't evenly distributed. Also my oven is weird. I'll try flipping round next time and use the throwing water in the oven trick to keep it moist and when checking in the over for the actual temperature. The dial on my oven is so far out its laughable, so rely on the thermometer I bought.
Good shout on looking else where for flour and seeds. Would like organic, particularly with wholemeal as the outside holds more pesticides.
Although it tasted good I suspect that dough was to wet as I didn't fold it enough. It just seemed so messy to handle, so suspect it wasn't evenly distributed. Also my oven is weird. I'll try flipping round next time and use the throwing water in the oven trick to keep it moist and when checking in the over for the actual temperature. The dial on my oven is so far out its laughable, so rely on the thermometer I bought.
polly
Well-Known Member
I made a loaf last night using your method, mrs quoad, and it was the best I've made in ages - so thanks again I think I've been using too much water in my starter and my loaves had been coming out a bit flat. This one rose like a beauty and has a lovely texture (I managed to remember to fold it every half hour). What I have noticed is (something that I've noticed before) that there seems to be a trade off between sourness and rise. Anyone else noticed this? I like it really sour but also nice and risen... Maybe it's just a question of playing with the flour:water ratio?
I think I've been using too much water in my starter and my loaves had been coming out a bit flat. This one rose like a beauty and has a lovely texture (I managed to remember to fold it every half hour). What I have noticed is (something that I've noticed before) that there seems to be a trade off between sourness and rise. Anyone else noticed this? I like it really sour but also nice and risen... Maybe it's just a question of playing with the flour:water ratio?
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
Making my mum's birthday cake for tomorrow and as I have a lot of sunberries (like blackberries) from the garden decided on a baked cheesecake.
Slightly nervous
as I used a smaller tin than the recipe calls for, thinking I'd make a smaller cake, but then just boshed it all in anyway. The mixture looked very runny, and I chucked some of the berries in too so I hope it's going to be ok
I've stewed some extra berries to have with it.
Slightly nervous
as I used a smaller tin than the recipe calls for, thinking I'd make a smaller cake, but then just boshed it all in anyway. The mixture looked very runny, and I chucked some of the berries in too so I hope it's going to be ok I've stewed some extra berries to have with it.
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polly
Well-Known Member
Was it ok, RubyToogood?
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
I dunno
I left it for an extra half an hour and it still looks very wobbly but smelled nice and had gone brown on top, so I've just turned the oven off to let it cool in there as recommended. I expect it'll drop like a stone in the middle.
polly
Well-Known Member
I dunno
Bet it's lovely either way. Undercooked/runny/squishy cake is always the best kind, imo. And if it does sink, you can always fill the void with berries. (And that is my day's quota of positive thinking used up in the first ten minutes.)
kittyP
Pluviophile
kittyP
Pluviophile
I dunno
Sorry liked for smelling nice and browning on top not the possibility of dropping.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I threw on a sponge this morning as I want to bake this afternoon. However still being half asleep, I didn't adjust the recipe. I'm not sure I want to use a 1kg of flour, but I've already added 500 ml of water. What's the least amount of flour I can get away with a still have something I can kneed?
Also where do people stand on adding things like milk and yougurt to their sough dough and at what point do you do so?
Also where do people stand on adding things like milk and yougurt to their sough dough and at what point do you do so?
Now you're talking hydration
Bakers begin with the amount of flour they're going to use, and then work out other ingredients on the basis of the %age of the flour's weight.
700mls to 1kg is 70% hydration.
That should be pretty darned safe.
I've got an 80% strong white on ATM, which is kinda nudging the upper edges of conventional loaf shaping. But which, I think, is pretty standard for baguettes.
If you're feeling proper bold, you'll find online recipes for 100% (i.e., 1l to 1kg). I've made them in the past, but you're relying entirely on your container to hold / shape them. No amount of folding will prevent catastrophic spooge.
Edit: and I'm not sure there's any point doing 100% with low gluten flours. Though I might be wrong on that.
Edit2: the colleague who I sometimes sell to really liked the 100%s. And that was with a pretty low gluten strong white. I might actually give a 100% loaf another shot
Sourness should be a product of fermentation. Longer = sourer; but fermentation also eats gluten, hence overproofing.
I've never intentionally played with this (I'm usually fucking around with and / or fucking up sth else) but have got sourer loaves from using somewhat gone over starter. Which both IS well sour. And takes longer to get going. So if it makes anything, needs longer proofing.
And the local awesome baker swears on putting it in the fridge overnight for More sourness. I don't get that. In theory. Because the whole point of a fridge is making things cold, so all processes (including sourness development) should be retarded. But perhaps I'm wrong! Certainly firms loaves up, which can't hurt.
Erm. Water / flour ratio shouldn't (imo) be too much of a thing. Certainly not for strong loaves. Unless you're properly dicking around at 80-90%. Water feels like the obvious thing to look at bc unworked dry dough holds shape better, but all other things being equal, by the time it hits the oven, more water = a better rise. Because the structure is looser, and steamier, and all those little yeast pockets should blow their chuffing nuts off. (Hence 100% loaves.)
Start with structure - folding, pre-shaping, etc. And possibly the autolyse (not adding salt for a bit after mixing the starter, water and flour together). And you should be able to take wetter loaves further.
Only reduce water as a last resort - you're making drier, stodgier, flatter loaves that take longer to cook. (Assuming the loaves that go in ARE sufficiently proved.)
polly
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
I mean messing around with quantities in the starter, not the dough. I had two starters on the go, so that I could leave them to get really sour (and alternate them), but I was feeding 50:50 flour and water, and they took so long to get going and the loaves, even when the starters were ready, didn't rise well at all. And as soon as I used your quantities, I got a really good rise. But much less sourness, even from my super sour starter.
I had noticed in the past that a thicker starter (ie more flour) got a better rise in the past, but at the expense of sourness. I found people online who agreed, but then I guess you can probably find people online who agree with anything...
(I think the fridge thing is to do with which bacteria proliferate. The ones that cause the rise prefer warmth, whereas the ones that produce the flavour don't seem to mind the cold...? Or something)
I mean messing around with quantities in the starter, not the dough. I had two starters on the go, so that I could leave them to get really sour (and alternate them), but I was feeding 50:50 flour and water, and they took so long to get going and the loaves, even when the starters were ready, didn't rise well at all. And as soon as I used your quantities, I got a really good rise. But much less sourness, even from my super sour starter.
I had noticed in the past that a thicker starter (ie more flour) got a better rise in the past, but at the expense of sourness. I found people online who agreed, but then I guess you can probably find people online who agree with anything...
(I think the fridge thing is to do with which bacteria proliferate. The ones that cause the rise prefer warmth, whereas the ones that produce the flavour don't seem to mind the cold...? Or something)
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
The cheesecake came out fine and was a hit. It did sink, but pretty evenly, and I could have put more berries in. Having the extra berry sauce and whipped cream really made it. Main course was scallops wrapped in pancetta, skewered with rosemary twigs and pan fried in butter, new potatoes with yoghurt and mint, and baby courgettes. That was a really good meal.
The problem with making special meals is that you're making stuff you don't normally make, so you don't know what you're doing and it's a bit nerve-wracking.
The problem with making special meals is that you're making stuff you don't normally make, so you don't know what you're doing and it's a bit nerve-wracking.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I made a disastrous banana cake yesterday.
It should have been in a loaf tin, but I only have cake tins, so it was a bit dry.
I also forgot to add the sugar
It should have been in a loaf tin, but I only have cake tins, so it was a bit dry.
I also forgot to add the sugar
May Kasahara
take me to the feeling
I made the kind of banana cake that you find in whole food shops: dark brown, reduced sugar, wholemeal flour etc. It's quite nice actually.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
That looks very nice.
I've missed being able to make bread these last few weeks, really looking forward for to a few days at home soon.
Out of intrest what bread do people find lasts best? I know all fresh bread goes off quickly quickly, but some more then others? The 80% I did a while back seemed to last a good few days and even though it was very dense it was quite tasty. Aldi seemed to have stopped doing Rye flour and Morrisons don't sell it either, but managed to get some expenses organic stuff from a health food store.
I've missed being able to make bread these last few weeks, really looking forward for to a few days at home soon.
Out of intrest what bread do people find lasts best? I know all fresh bread goes off quickly quickly, but some more then others? The 80% I did a while back seemed to last a good few days and even though it was very dense it was quite tasty. Aldi seemed to have stopped doing Rye flour and Morrisons don't sell it either, but managed to get some expenses organic stuff from a health food store.
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
Sourdough in general lasts really well, much better than yeasted bread. I haven't noticed any difference between different flours when making it. It's good as bread for three days and makes great toast for up to a week.That looks very nice.
I've missed being able to make bread these last few weeks, really looking forward for to a few days at home soon.
Out of intrest what bread do people find lasts best? I know all fresh bread goes off quickly quickly, but some more then others? The 80% I did a while back seemed to last a good few days and even though it was very dense it was quite tasty. Aldi seemed to have stopped doing Rye flour and Morrisons don't sell it either, but managed to get some expenses organic stuff from a health food store.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Baking today. I've got my Kenwood. It's not pretty, but hope should do the job. Did a basic mix of different flours last night for the loaf and going to try making pizza later.
I don't have a baking stone though. Is there any reason I cant use a new paving slab from a DIY shop? Whats the difference between using cast iron and more conventional stones? I do fancy a big one though to be able to things side by side.
I don't have a baking stone though. Is there any reason I cant use a new paving slab from a DIY shop? Whats the difference between using cast iron and more conventional stones? I do fancy a big one though to be able to things side by side.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Had a go at pizza dough. I followed a recommendation for 70% hydration and used very strong white flour as I didn't have any 00. Anyway stuck it in the mixer after I'd let the whole lot sit overnight. Very soon changed so I had that gluten window when you pulled the dough, but it was unbelievably runny. Stuck in a fair bit more flour and it's still very very soft. It's also the first time I've used just white flour for anything and really wasn't expecting how much rise its done when I proofed it. Going to give it my best shot and use lots of flour when attempting to roll it out.
What kind of hydration levels do other people use when making a pizza dough?
What kind of hydration levels do other people use when making a pizza dough?
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Had a quick look round homebase as it's next to the supermarket, but didn't find anything that fits what I was after. Apparently concrete is not a good choice as it splits and breaks. I've ordered a big steel one from Amazon. Checking my measurements it will only just fit in the oven, so hopefully should do the job.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
So I've just blown a £120 on a food mixer. I've just watched a French guy on YouTube put a dough hook in his drill and achieve a similar result. I have a mighty drill as well. 
Nine Bob Note
Self-Isolating before it was fashionable
Apparently, my aunt has requested I make 40 cupcakes for her granddaughter's birthday party (half of them gluten-free!); my mum told her to fuck off I (with a few exceptions) haven't enjoyed making cupcakes in years, ever since it became apparent that some of the people at work I usually gave mine to were making there own and distributing them on days that I didn't work
On the positive side, I'm on holiday next week. Kinda wanna master the Black Forest Gateux
I (with a few exceptions) haven't enjoyed making cupcakes in years, ever since it became apparent that some of the people at work I usually gave mine to were making there own and distributing them on days that I didn't work On the positive side, I'm on holiday next week. Kinda wanna master the Black Forest Gateux
