..ew African despots
Posted by rumble
I thought this was worthy of it's own thread.
Comments anybody?
Posted by rumble
I thought this was worthy of it's own thread.
Comments anybody?
Western leaders are corrupt but at least they're not criminally insane like quite a f
- Thread starter freethepeeps
- Start date
I
InspectorKnacke
Guest
looks like you may be wrong. but Western leaders are corrupt but at least they're not criminally insane like quite a few African despots, would be about right
Why is Africa in such a mess? Could it have something to do with
A Slavery
B Colonialism
C Neo-colonialism
?
Take one of the largest and most powerful country - Nigeria. First you deplete and deprave through slavery and collusion with slavery for something like 300 years. (A) Then you yoke together about 200 different peoples under millitary, racist rule with deep ideological brainwashing about Black inferiority, Xianity and god knows what else (B) then you leave those 200 different groups to somehow make sense of a border/nation that makes no sense, resulting in one of the worst civil wars the continent has seen, while more recently letting your largest corporations (like Shell) to invade lands and murder people it doesn't like (like Shell)(C)...
Then repeat a similar story taking in apartheid, Rwanda and adding in some difficult terrain and desperate nutrition and health issues (largely caused by the West witholding food and medicine)
So, which nations are largely to blame for the resulting situation? I would have thought they are mostly not in Africa, wouldn't you?
A Slavery
B Colonialism
C Neo-colonialism
?
Take one of the largest and most powerful country - Nigeria. First you deplete and deprave through slavery and collusion with slavery for something like 300 years. (A) Then you yoke together about 200 different peoples under millitary, racist rule with deep ideological brainwashing about Black inferiority, Xianity and god knows what else (B) then you leave those 200 different groups to somehow make sense of a border/nation that makes no sense, resulting in one of the worst civil wars the continent has seen, while more recently letting your largest corporations (like Shell) to invade lands and murder people it doesn't like (like Shell)(C)...
Then repeat a similar story taking in apartheid, Rwanda and adding in some difficult terrain and desperate nutrition and health issues (largely caused by the West witholding food and medicine)
So, which nations are largely to blame for the resulting situation? I would have thought they are mostly not in Africa, wouldn't you?
Nigeria had at least Oil - not that it did it any good
Rwanda - the UN is critisized if it does nothing when ppls commit genocide. On the other hand if seen to manipulate it's Neo-colonialism .
It's no-win all the way in Africa. Totally impractical suggestion(you'd expect no less) If ppls don't like Colonial borders, why don't they dissolve them and fragment into tribal/ethnic regions?
Rwanda - the UN is critisized if it does nothing when ppls commit genocide. On the other hand if seen to manipulate it's Neo-colonialism .
It's no-win all the way in Africa. Totally impractical suggestion(you'd expect no less) If ppls don't like Colonial borders, why don't they dissolve them and fragment into tribal/ethnic regions?
"Nigeria had at least Oil - not that it did it any good"
Yeah they had oil, but it's just been exploited by Shell, thus the Nigerian people never see any benefit from it!
And heres my suggestion, overthrow all the states, destroy capitalism. IMO that beats the "realistic" ideas of the capitalists and their friends.
Alex
Yeah they had oil, but it's just been exploited by Shell, thus the Nigerian people never see any benefit from it!
And heres my suggestion, overthrow all the states, destroy capitalism. IMO that beats the "realistic" ideas of the capitalists and their friends.
Alex
Maybe rumble, but there were millions back in Nigeria barely scraping an existance. Just remember the people who came over were probably the richer Nigerians, the majority saw no oil money ever. And look at the country now, they've got a "democracy" which makes bugger all difference to them as Obasanjo is simply a western stooge.
Alex
Alex
John Wisehammer
lifestyle trendy vicar
"Nigeria had at least Oil - not that it did it any good "
Hence the "curse of natural resources" theory - although the counterpoint that there are plenty of fucked-up resource poor countries across the world is pretty convincing.
Hence the "curse of natural resources" theory - although the counterpoint that there are plenty of fucked-up resource poor countries across the world is pretty convincing.
John Wisehammer
lifestyle trendy vicar
It's either a bit circular ("being fucked over will fuck you over") or ahistoric ("being fucked over curses you forever"), wouldn't you say? To blame everything wrong that's happened in SSA on colonialism is dopey - not, of course, that you were.
I was watching a documentary on Kenya, a widow is usually dispossessed by her in-laws who take all forcing her into destitution/ prostitution, there are bounty-hunters of Witch doctors by order of pres Moi, lynch-mobs, superstition...
The more I see the clearer it was - Who are we to come between ppls and their need to self-destruct
The more I see the clearer it was - Who are we to come between ppls and their need to self-destruct
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
As you (circularly) said -- a society can suffer through having resources or not having resources.
But a-historic? Most areas of Africa had their civil societies continually destroyed over a period of centuries. This (to coin a phrase) fucked them up.
So you see, we must develop and deepen our analysis of 'fuck' by measuring the exact extent of the fucking, the historical and societal conext of the fuck and the cultural significance as the whole shagging (or fuckxperience) was interpreted by the fuckee.
But a-historic? Most areas of Africa had their civil societies continually destroyed over a period of centuries. This (to coin a phrase) fucked them up.
So you see, we must develop and deepen our analysis of 'fuck' by measuring the exact extent of the fucking, the historical and societal conext of the fuck and the cultural significance as the whole shagging (or fuckxperience) was interpreted by the fuckee.
Usual right wing bollox from you there rumble. Yes there are customs in Africa which are barbaric, but your argument reminds me of the old imperialist line of "oh we have to occupy their country their not civilised". I remind you that it was whites who invented the nuclear bomb, the gas chamber and pretty much all weapons of mass death. You still reckon the west is "civilised".
Alex
Alex
Ah a novel answer - no but from a deeply right wing perspective.
The UK, Belgium, Germany et al, raped these countries for everything they had and for hundreds of years. Don't you concede that the state of Africa now is down to the factors given by bruise in the post above?
Alex
The UK, Belgium, Germany et al, raped these countries for everything they had and for hundreds of years. Don't you concede that the state of Africa now is down to the factors given by bruise in the post above?
Alex
How racist is the suggestion that black people were not capable of producing this kind of technology? Europe would have been unable to produce it without exploiting the resources of other continents.
Perhaps you could let Bush know that Iraq is incapable of producing WMDs. It would save him having to "expend our resources" on his stupid war!
And to ignore the fact that colonialism was the force that shaped the conditions under which Africa has to manage now, would be equally dopey ,no?
Yes, there are problems in Africa that are not of Europes making, but had we not colonised, the continent would have developed in a different way, and would now be a different place, no?
And equally, one cannot dismiss the fact that they are now part of a global economic system, and that shapes how things are.
And the West has never been shy of deposing or destabilising regimes with which it disagrees, no? And lets not forget how Africa was used as a apwn in the Cold War either!
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
"(A) Then you yoke together about 200 different peoples under millitary, racist rule with deep ideological brainwashing about Black inferiority, Xianity and god knows what else (B) then you leave those 200 different groups to somehow make sense of a border/nation that makes no sense, resulting in one of the worst civil wars the continent has seen, while more recently letting your largest corporations (like Shell) to invade lands and murder people it doesn't like (like Shell)(C)..."
Bruise, you pretty much nailed it. The British Empire fucked Nigeria, and other SSA countries over royally.
What is the UK doing to try to redress this monstrous injustice? What are you, as socially conscious UKers doing, to keep your govt. honest on this issue?
"I was watching a documentary on Kenya, a widow is usually dispossessed by her in-laws who take all forcing her into destitution/ prostitution, there are bounty-hunters of Witch doctors by order of pres Moi, lynch-mobs, superstition...
Te more I see the clearer it was - Who are we to come between ppls and their need to self-destruct"
As a believer in balance, it is comforting to me to see that thickheadedness is as alive and well with right wingers, as with left wingers.
And here he goes again:
"No, we shouldn't have expended our resources on underdeveloped countries."
Expended our resources. A good expenditure of resources, unleashing BP, or its predecessor, to rape captive nations.
Wasn't it a good expenditure of resources, getting your rocks off, economically speaking?
Read up on the history of the Congo, and what belgium did there, on the existence of one of the worlds largest palaces in Brussels. How did a two bit country get the money to put up all those palaces and monuments?
Would you like three guesses?
How is the Congo doing today? Perhaps we should discuss the relativities of the 'expenditure of resources'.
Bruise, you pretty much nailed it. The British Empire fucked Nigeria, and other SSA countries over royally.
What is the UK doing to try to redress this monstrous injustice? What are you, as socially conscious UKers doing, to keep your govt. honest on this issue?
"I was watching a documentary on Kenya, a widow is usually dispossessed by her in-laws who take all forcing her into destitution/ prostitution, there are bounty-hunters of Witch doctors by order of pres Moi, lynch-mobs, superstition...
Te more I see the clearer it was - Who are we to come between ppls and their need to self-destruct"
As a believer in balance, it is comforting to me to see that thickheadedness is as alive and well with right wingers, as with left wingers.
And here he goes again:
"No, we shouldn't have expended our resources on underdeveloped countries."
Expended our resources. A good expenditure of resources, unleashing BP, or its predecessor, to rape captive nations.
Wasn't it a good expenditure of resources, getting your rocks off, economically speaking?
Read up on the history of the Congo, and what belgium did there, on the existence of one of the worlds largest palaces in Brussels. How did a two bit country get the money to put up all those palaces and monuments?
Would you like three guesses?
How is the Congo doing today? Perhaps we should discuss the relativities of the 'expenditure of resources'.
hmm. good question - it tends to be quite hard to get colonial issues raised as some of our most influential papers (daily mail etc) take the view that it was necessary to civilise the place, and its only since we pulled out that problems occured. Fantastic example of treating situations as though they exist in a vacuum.
what do you do if the standard of debate in the public arena doesn't allow for an event to be placed in a historical context?
Most of the work being done now is focussed on fair trade to try and improve the existing situation rather than any campaign to correct past injustice, like i say maybe due to the medias' tendency to treat situations as though they have arisen out of the blue. I suppose the other campaign is around WTO/IMF intervention, as many peeps would argue that this causing much grief too.
Rather surprisingly?
No "criminally insane" deposts have been identified yet. Are there any? There are plenty who are ruthless and show a total disregard for lives, especially of those from other tribes.
Bit like Bush and his Daddy really!
No "criminally insane" deposts have been identified yet. Are there any? There are plenty who are ruthless and show a total disregard for lives, especially of those from other tribes.
Bit like Bush and his Daddy really!
there's always the recent UK military intervention into sierra leone. The first time, that i can recall, the British army actually going in and helping to sort a place out (with help from others), without fucking up in some way. It probably didn't involve enough masturbation over weaponry and death of innocent people for our American friends to notice.
TinyCrendon
New Member
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
rumble is afraid of being sued by Idi Amin....hehehehehehehehe.
fuck me you're a pussy.
IDI AMIN IS CRIMINALLY INSANE, ok there darling i said it for you. hehehehehehe.
rumble is afraid of being sued by Idi Amin....hehehehehehehehe.
fuck me you're a pussy.
IDI AMIN IS CRIMINALLY INSANE, ok there darling i said it for you. hehehehehehe.
