World Trade Centre terrorist attacks, 11th September 2001

[Jimski B]

What gets me is this dehumanising talk of good and especially 'evil' from US and British leaders. Do they not understand that it is precisely the same kind of dehumanisation that causes these acts to be carried out in the first place? There are many many people who think of the USA as 'evil' in the same simplistic way. Such talk brings such acts.

One other point is that unless the US has a serious think about why its foreign policy causes such hatred against it, this will happen again. Instead we are likely to see retaliation from the US. Let's hope not. Whatever they bomb more lives are likely to be lost, and it won't be the lives of those making the decisions...

 

[William of Walworth]

Excellent, excellent first post JB, welcome.

 

[Jimski B]

Thanks, I've looked at the message board before (and for a long time at Urban75 in general) but this is the first thing that has motivated me to post here.

Out of interest, does anybody have any more details on the plane down in Pennsylvania? There has been a strange lack of news about that. Rumours it was shot down by the USAF or deliberately crashed by the pilot to avoid worse disaster, but no actual news on it. Anybody know more?

 

[Steve]

Yep, good post JB.

Could we avoid the mawkish doomsday scenarios please, "act of war", "I'm scared", all that sort of stuff. Its not very intelligent and it's the sort of knock on effect desired by the people who perpetrated this evil.

I hope the US doesn't retaliate, but undoubtedly they will, they have the intelligence reports, the technology in the form of cruise missiles - you can fully see their point about countries who openly harbour terrorist organisations, but that doesn't justify killing innocent people.

As in dealing with the IRA over the past 30 years, its usually counter productive to try to hit out at a target when you're never exactly sure who or where that target is.

Sadly the US has built up a lot of resentment against herself in recent decades, so it becomes only a small escalation for disaffected people to point to her as "The Great Satan". And thats what all rabble rousers need - a common enemy to point at (we used to use the Russians for this, now we have the EU).

A pox on all nationalism.

But certainly the US needs to rethink her long term attitude to how she uses her power in the world, both economic and military.

Although yesterdays incidents were horrific, the deaths in the many thousands would be dwarfed by what terrorists could do given the right technology. And its our facination with using heavy duty modern technology which makes society vunerable to these sorts of attacks - quite unnecessarily huge densely populated buildings combined with heavy use of aircraft for travel, in this case.

 

[Termite Man]

It's unfortunate so many "innocent" people had to die, but if you examine the actions of corporate America and the American government , then mabye you can see some justification in the actions carried out by these terrorists.

 

[Bookere]

Latest News I've just heard is that the US has found an abandoned car at the airport containing lots of Arabic books and they have identified five Arab suspects.

This all seems to confirm the assumption that is Islamic extremists.

Maybe now the world will stand up and look at the way the US is handling the Israel situation and reconsider it's support for them.

 

[Space Girl]

Mr. Zero,
two wrongs never made a right!

 

[joe piece]

To all our US readers and posters I extend my deepest Sympathies and hope that all you and yours are alive and well.
To All the posters that have tried to gloat or lay blame cop the FUCK on, wait until there is proof either way.
I am numbed that any one could do this, boss or workers all are people death on this scale is frightening.

Peace and love to all!

Joe Piece

 

[Steve]

Mr Zero, that is an offensive comment.

Blanket demonising of groups of people (eg Americans) is the sort of mentality that can lead to individuals who are sufficiently mad to perpetrate terrible acts.

Most Americans I've met have been perfectly decent people.

 

[han]

Yes.
Nothing justifies this level of terrorist violence, murder on this scale. Violence AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE is never the way to try and make political change. Let's just hope that America doesn't respond 'gung ho' to this horrendous act, and that only the perpetraters of this crime, not innocent people, are punished.

 

[freethepeeps]

And what justifies the behaviour of the G8?

People were driven by something so powerful that they were prepared to take lives, and give up their own!

How can we, the children of the oppressors make judgement on the retaliation that has been taken.

We have blood on our hands: Every day people in the world die because of the way it is run, and the G8 and America has a large part to play in that.

Those deaths are not discussed, not debated in the same way. Why is that?

 

[William of Walworth]

Valid but SEPARATE point FTP, no-one here is "justifying" what you're describing. But we're discussing yesterday, and the main point here is that human beings are dead. Mr Zero's comment was offensive, full stop.

Peace and love to all

W of W

 

[MM]

no matter what nothing can justify what happened there when you see the pictures of people jumping with some vague hope that they can survive and those who saw them hit the ground.... the mind cannot handle such sights we are lucky we are not among those people...

has anyone seen the nostradamus thing going about the net??

 

[General Ludd]

I've seen the Nostradamus thing and it's a load of bollocks IMO.
I've also seen the pictures of people jumping from a 110storey building and I can't dismiss or forget that.

 

[William of Walworth]

Yes, and I'm ignoring it cos its mumbo jumbo cobblers (see other thread)

Love and rationality to all

W of W

 

[Matt S]

FTP and Mr Zero,

Far be it from me to dismiss the effects of the current economic system on billions of peoples lives, but the fact remains that thousands of largely innocent people are now dead. Sure, we should also be talking about all the other people who are killed directly or indirectly by the G8 et al, but that doesn't invalidate the grief, anger and confusion over thousands of Americans deaths. These are PEOPLE who have died, please remember that.

Matt

 

[freethepeeps]

I don't see why Mr. Zero's comment was so offensive, and I don't think my point is seperate Will.

I question how "innocent" we are, when we enjoy the material rewards of the oppressive world economic system and do not debate the deaths of the many people who die daily, who are more innocent in that they are not enjoying material awards, do not have access to the same kind of information and are suffering because of drought, starvation or dictatorships propped up with Western arms and money.

The twin towers are a rich symbol of US Capitalism, the pentagon is the ultimate symbol of US militarism and they were attacked, and I do not see how we judge those actions.

Blair and Bush are both talking about our democracy and social justice (= good) and the "evil" of those who attacked those symbols yesterday.

Once again, yesterday while this was all going off in the States, protestors in London were treated to an insight into the real merits of democracy and social justice as police stifled dissent and punched protestors in their faces, later baton charging them as well.

Are we good - Are they evil.

Are we justified in our behaviour?

Are they justified in theirs?

I don't know how to answer the last one.

 

[editor]

To stop this thread becoming unworkably massive, I've now locked it so that no further comments can be added. Please add your new posts to the World Trade Center: reaction and comment thread.

Thanks.

[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: editor ]