World Trade Center: reaction and comment

[Cloo]

There is a possibility that it is some right-wing loonies. Get themselves all killed and then leave the blame to go on the 'A-rabs' who will 'probably kill the Jews' whilst they're being finished off.
It does seem possible that it is someone completetly unexpected; hence the utter lack on any intelligence about it.
The fact that Islamic/Palestinian groups are fervently denying involvement could be encouraging. Now someone's gone and done what some of them were crowing about, they've realised that they don't want to be in that deep. Maybe some good could come of this (Please).

 

[William of Walworth]

Cheers for sending on that perspective John.

It was FTP who raised the point about symbolism (I was just quoting his earlier message)

Freethepeeps -- yes, makes sense, thanks for the clarification!

W of W

 

[pandakiller]

I agree Cloo. There are no facts as yet, just racism and presumptions.

Here we have as mankind an opportunity to improve Earth, at best, it is a way of making sure things change for the better.

 

[William of Walworth]

Cloo, its a possibility, but would right wing loonies (I presume you meant domestic US ones?) have the organisational skill and funds?? I don't know.

W of W

 

[LimbBomb]

President Bush, in a declaration to the nation last night said (the US) will make "no distinction" between terrorists and countries that harbour them in its hunt for those responsible in the attacks. This, coupled with a senior security official's comment that the probability that the attack was orchastrated by Bin Laden was "in the high 90's" speaks volumes. Other top investigators gathered evidence "strongly suggesting" bin Laden's group al Qaeda was involved.

It looks like old bushy boy is out for blood, the old "hunt and punish" in the vein of daddy dearest.

Here in the U.S. we're trying to organize a resistence in case of a U.S. attack on Afghanistan. If you're interested in helping out where you're located Email me at Mrblitzstein@hotmail.com

we want to be ready to go at any moment in case our government does something stupid... which it shall almost certainly do. thanks.

 

[johnwisehammer]

(extraneous)

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: johnwisehammer ]

 

[Geoffrey Hayes]

I have read keenly, the debate and ideas on this thread. It must be admitted that their is truth and substance in them. But we are afforded the benefit of being detached from this tradgedy.

Everyday people simply do not consider the wider issues, that have been debated here. Infact most people in europe and the US, do not greatly analyse the policies of their government. Nor do they question the moral and ethical results of their nations actions. The politicians are too blame. It is this fact that absolves them.

This may not be right, but it is a reality. It always has been and I suspect it always will be so. Folk just go about their business and do not expect such acts of violence to happen too them. Why should they (by their thinking)? When such acts do happen in the west, the public thus expects action to be taken.

What happens next is very much a for gone conclusion. The US, with respective allies in tow, will take punitive action. It may fall wide of the mark and compound issues.

Do not expect, logic, common sense or morality to prevail. Humans are driven by their passions.

 

[D]

Thanks to everyone who offered support yesterday.

I managed to track down all my family members and they're fine. My father had a meeting at the World Financial Building, adjacent to the WTC, yesterday, but he was off schedule (otherwise he would have been drinking coffee in the south tower when the second plane hit), enabling him to leave the area, seek refuge in the Goldman Sachs building, and eventually wind his way through the wreckage of lower Manhattan to arrive home unscathed.

My family tends towards a "business as usual" attitude -- I was at work, my mother at the dentist, my brother at school, and my father was wondering why the subway was delayed while the first tower imploded and where he should go to vote in the (suspended) mayoral primary election. No amount of panicking would have spared us from whatever might have been headed our way.

I'm hoping to return to New York for part of this weekend. A way -- perhaps more palatable than imagining all the bodies buried beneath rubble -- for me to engage with this loss is to think about the fact that the compass at the bottom of Manhattan that helped me to distinguish north from south and to find my way home late at night, the structure from which I could see all of New York -- the frenetic, glittering, grimy, beautiful spectacle in which I've played some small part -- is gone.

I am trying to imagine what it must be like for those people who live amidst perpetual destruction to see their landscape change so dramatically and with such frequency, to witness the disappearance of places and people familiar and reassuring day after day.

 

[bosco]

I was going to put a weird picture up but on second thoughts, it might be a bit insensitive. It's not upsetting or anything, just coincidental-album-cover-artwork.
It's here if anyone wants to see.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: flame ]

 

[D]

Hey flame --

the link doesn't seem to work.

 

[William of Walworth]

Getting a Yahoo message saying "Forbidden" -- have they withdrawn the image, or had it withdrawn, I wonder

 

[Steve]

Agree with WR on this one.

While its understandable and indeed valid to call terrorists thugs, murderers, evil etc, this depersonalises them and it allows you to avoid facing up to the issues which lead to their actions.

Yesterdays events clearly had the impact they had because

1)Thousands of people were killed in one place at one time.
2)They were "people like us" - western office workers, building services staff, firemen, policemen, from essentially the same culture as us.
3)Very importantly, it damages our sense of security, death coming out of nowhere, on the other hand we all know that thousands of people die in road accidents, but its a diffused threat to each of us, and one we have a lot of control over.
4)It all happened in front of the TV cameras.

whereas the tens of thousands of people who needlessly die daily in the rest of the world is a diffuse phenomenon, not related to our daily experience, and unreported in the media.

But both types of death are deliberate in their own way, one through murderous vindictiveness, the other through deliberate neglect.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: Steve ]

 

[William of Walworth]

I agree with Steve especially about the media impact, and there should be as much awareness and publicity for other dead and dying people in other circumstances and places. I've got friends who work for Oxfam for heavens sake and they are without exception lefties, greens, anarchists, anti capitalists (plus one or two REAL Christians who are also humanitarian lefties).

I also agree with Well Red (only just seen his message) more than he thinks I do. Arghhh!! Perhaps I just expressed myself badly. Because I was horrified about yesterday doesn't mean I'm trying to let capitalism or US policy off the hook or anything. There were one or two folks coming on yesterday, before WR came back, who seemed dangerously close to being at least partly "triumphalistic" though, and I was trying to criticise that. I respect Adam Porter's piece, but Nemo made a very valid and polite request (in the original thread) that people refrain from insensitively ideologising at the expense of being humanitarian, which should be our first reaction (IMO)

And I accept freethepeeps clarification and I agree with most of it.

Love to all

W of W

 

[elliot]

yeah.. that link does work.. just visit http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/ first, then copy and paste the url above into the same browser..

should work.. it's just to get around the server's security..

 

[orangeade]

y'know, the thing that saddens me is that there are people around saying stuff like this:

US is at war with islam whether we like it or not...we will nuke Afganistan, et al.
There are no innocents in such a situation and being a cheap bastard I must observe that blanket bombing would simply cost more than the whole country is worth...on the other hand a couple of small nukes, clean or otherwise would make the point. Hell, US has done it before with really, REALLLY, dirty bombs...that point was well taken.

This is a time for revenge. No way can we sit back and let this take place. That is the wrong message to send. We need to show the world that we aren't going to take this kind of crap. Like President Bush stated today "The world is watching us....and we are going to show the world that we are going to pass this test." Hell ya! HOOOAH!
------------------
"Avauncez! To Defend and Serve!"

 

[William of Walworth]

You must stop going to thesite, orangeade
It's not good for any humanitarian. I know there's one or two people there resisting those aggressive tossers who seem to have taken it over of late, but it's not good for the stress levels, and in the end people who think like that will never be convinced

Discussion here is more fruitful.

W of W

 

[Katherine Toorcana]

Just wanted to say that I've been following this story since it broke and I'm still in utter disbelief. I have relatives in upper Manhattan and have not heard any word from them yet. I know they're okay though. If the terrorists wanted to bring America to its knees, it accomplished that. Whether they broke our spirit I would have to say no. Houston and its ports have been on high alert for hours and there is an air of fear in this city. However, people here are more united as ever. My only hope is that they find the perpetrators and deal with them..ONLY when all evidence is compiled without scapegoating and/or circumstantial claims. I think alot of Americans want to see justice done. My fear is that justice will include many more innocent lives to be lost. Am I advocating a knee-jerk retaliation, no I'm not. But I do want to see whoever did this pay personally. They can talk shit about Americans all they want but don't fuck with innocent lives. That's when I take it personally.

 

[editor]

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