Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yeah I heard later, just caught it briefly on Ch4 news while on my way out, was a very strange few minutes until someone clarified that one!TeeJay said:
July 2005 London bomb blasts: UPDATES AND NEWS ONLY - NO DISCUSSION
- Thread starter energy release
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The CCTV would be viewed manually. There is some facial recognition software available but it relies on knowing which face it is looking for in the first place so any suspects must be well-known and photographed. It is also notoriously unreliable.
Manual CCTV viewing takes forever - every hour of footage takes at least 90-120 person minutes to view (constant pauses to check unclear/fleeting glimpses, 5 min breaks every 20-30 mins or operator concentration becomes too unreliable ...). It also requires a viewing station for each operator, for each camera (and most central london tube stations have complex multiplex systems which digitally record every camera continuously in real-time) if it is to be done simultaneously. And it is pointless watching CCTV footage until you know what you are looking for ...
I think it was only quick here because it was possible to set (guess?) some parameters (time / location) from what had happened and these turned out to be right. The suspects, when viewed also seem to have jumped out of the screen at the operators (group of four, large rucksacks, then splitting up ...)
It is also very easy to work out what went on when you have the benefit of hindsight and you KNOW the relevance of one or more individuals / addresses / numbers / etc. It would not surprise me if such reactive review of intelligence / surveillance records threw up previous sightings / contacts which now have great significance.
Prior to the bombings, however, they would have been just one of millions of sightings / associations / contacts and, unless the security forces have psychic powers, there would be nothing to highlight them as of particular relevance / importance.
Manual CCTV viewing takes forever - every hour of footage takes at least 90-120 person minutes to view (constant pauses to check unclear/fleeting glimpses, 5 min breaks every 20-30 mins or operator concentration becomes too unreliable ...). It also requires a viewing station for each operator, for each camera (and most central london tube stations have complex multiplex systems which digitally record every camera continuously in real-time) if it is to be done simultaneously. And it is pointless watching CCTV footage until you know what you are looking for ...
I think it was only quick here because it was possible to set (guess?) some parameters (time / location) from what had happened and these turned out to be right. The suspects, when viewed also seem to have jumped out of the screen at the operators (group of four, large rucksacks, then splitting up ...)
It is also very easy to work out what went on when you have the benefit of hindsight and you KNOW the relevance of one or more individuals / addresses / numbers / etc. It would not surprise me if such reactive review of intelligence / surveillance records threw up previous sightings / contacts which now have great significance.
Prior to the bombings, however, they would have been just one of millions of sightings / associations / contacts and, unless the security forces have psychic powers, there would be nothing to highlight them as of particular relevance / importance.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
I think that fact that the bombers immediate families had no idea what was going on, reported them missing on Thursday and would have provided police with photos must have speeded up the investigation considerably
KeyboardJockey said:
Maybe, just maybe, it's good police work - like competent, thorough scene management and examination, the stuff which caused the delays in identifying the victims and which the media were moaning about for the first four or five days of the investigation.
I wonder about some people:
No result / Delays = Police/security services incompetence
Arrests / Identification of suspects / Speedy outcome = Police/security services must have had prior knowledge / be part of some conspiracy
Ozric
Getting older, one day at a time.
I still find it hard to believe that they voluntarily blew themselves up in their bid to commit an atrocity, especially after hearing a little about their backgrounds. I mean a fucking school teacher/mentor, another man with a kid and another on the way! I can't make any sense of it.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I think this thread is drifting a tad discussion-wards.
Missed it but it's on "Listen again" on the Radio4 website, here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/atoz/index.shtml#bMs T said:
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Kid_Eternity said:
Yabbut, that's an article in the International Herald Tribune about (or stirring up) Brit/French spats - the quote is one example, alongside Chirac's review of British food and others.
Unless the Brit newspapers have been making things up totally, all sorts of British police and intelligence personnel have been leaking wildly - and equally inaccurately - as well; and they were happy to talk to French sources too.
For example: the leak that timers were found and the leak that timers have not been found. One is wrong. Both appear to have come from British sources. Both are "leaks" at least in the sense that they were not issued as authorised statements by the Met as an organisation.
Kid_Eternity said:
Nice quote you selected. But what is your point?
(Just for the information of anyone who chooses not to follow the link, the very next sentence goes on to read "But Chaboud did not stop with his assessment of the explosives and their origins, which, it turned out, were wrong. My emphasis )
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Ozric said:
OK, try this as a thought experiment.
You have to start by putting your head into a place where God doesn't just exist, but in order to please Him you have to pray every day facing a holy city; you truly and utterly believe that His word is law, that the religious text you follow is divine, and that all competing ideas - not just religions, but ideas - are against God and therefore a sin. Repeat this until it forms a core part of your day-to-day existance.
Then combine this with learning a radicalised variant of your faith - one that teaches that it's OK to kill enemies of God regardless of whether they are civilan or not - indeed, that view doesn't come into it since they are all inifidels/heathens who don't follow your faith and as such are less than human. You are then told that by killing you are fighting on behalf of your God and will be rewarded in the afterlife for doing so.
Have you ever really had deep religious faith where it defines your perception of the world? If you haven't you will find it hard to understand why someone with a good job, wife, kids etc would sacrifice it all for their faith - and expect their family to understand as well.
One of the hardest things for secular or even Xtians in somewhere like Western Europe to understand is religious commitment at that level - your denial is a completely understandable reaction.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Drifting at battle speed, I'd say.FridgeMagnet said:
Justin said:
Now, if Justiin were reading this, he'd say something pithy like ....
Surely you speed at "battle speed", not drift
Who was it posted by ..... aaahhh .....
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I simply c+ped the first couple of paragraphs if you notice.detective-boy said:
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
It's irony, Einstein.detective-boy said:Now, if Justiin were reading this, he'd say something pithy like ....
Surely you speed at "battle speed", not drift
Who was it posted by ..... aaahhh .....
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Seems so long ago in some ways, yet remembering back now, my stomach feels hollow and the memory of the fear and confusion so palpable still.
Schmetterling
I saw something nasty in the woodshed!
And, do you know, the fourth poster on the current page is Loki. Gave me the shivers as well.
It also seems that it was much longer ago.
It also seems that it was much longer ago.
really?
it was ramajam at London Bridge around 9am.
expected to see more gun toting police than i did though.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Yup - be nice if the title was changed to read (ARCHIVE) or something.
Not nice to read that, even if you know it's the old one.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I'll move this to an archive forum.