Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat

[Garcia Lorca]

difficult position or not, there IS NO JUSTIFICATION for the Robocops on speed tactics used. including baton swings, edges of shields or any other violence that was used on a peaceful protest.

You lot were there for a riot, the protesters didnt give you one so you had to make it look like one by smashing fuck out of innocent people.

 

[pdxm]

too scared to answer any of my questions copper? you're a shitter like all your mates. why did you baton charge a completely peaceful bunch of people pdxm?

1) I didn't baton charge anyone

2) See all the previous explanations given as to why the decision might have been made to clear the street

 

[SpookyFrank]

is it in this thread - Police oracle

My word but there's some hateful shit on that thread

What's clear is that all those posting were certain there would be violence; some were talking like they were about to be sent to the western front circa 1916 ffs- families praying for them to come home safe and simillar nonsense. Ironic considering families and children would have been among those being bludgeoned by these cunts on Wednesday. There are no mentions of baton charges etc, only collective pats on the back. There are references to the officers attempting to help the stricken Mr. Tomlinson being 'stoned' as well as bottled. I don't think even the Scum has had the gall to suggest that rocks were being thrown during that incident...

 

[DotCommunist]

Well I could put a counter argument.

1) How many "fluffies were seriously injured"

2) Whose decision was it for the individuals involved to stand right at the front of the police lines?

3) Given the option how many would have left peacefully or how many would have said "make us"?

1) Why should people exerting the right to protest be subjected to any injury at all?

2) Get fucking real. Who draws the lines eh? Your lot.


3) It would have been nice if they'd had the opportunity, 'cept they didn't. They just got your lot in riot gear

 

[paolo]

PDXM: your lot behaved with appalling aggression against peaceful protesters.

I'm very in favour of law and order stuff.

And yet I find myself agreeing with DC. (There's a first for everything )

pxdm: It might not be "your lot" specifically - rank and file, but your bosses are out of touch on this protest. They are taking a generic approach which whilst it might get consistent results, may well - more and more - give non-criminal public a negative first-contact with the police.

 

[pdxm]

1) Why should people exerting the right to protest be subjected to any injury at all?

2) Get fucking real. Who draws the lines eh? Your lot.


3) It would have been nice if they'd had the opportunity, 'cept they didn't. They just got your lot in riot gear

1) You appear to think the right to protest is absolute, but isn't because inevitably it starts to infringe on the rights of others.

2) Not really

3) Didn't see many queues of people hoping to leave.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

My word but there's some hateful shit on that thread
There are references to the officers attempting to help the stricken Mr. Tomlinson being 'stoned' as well as bottled. I don't think even the Scum has had the gall to suggest that rocks were being thrown during that incident...

yeah and after it they all go mysteriously quiet, knowing that due to the video/photo evidence out there that they didnt get the bite from protesters that was expected. the "unwashed" are the ones coming out on top for remaining cool, whilst these hyped up eejits have made an arse of it.

Totally show their true colours.... SHAMEFUL.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

1) I didn't baton charge anyone

2) See all the previous explanations given as to why the decision might have been made to clear the street

1) well your mates did bigtime.

I would imagine the police Commanders decision log would look something like this:-

1) have facilitated protest for nearly 12 hours now/ need to balance rights of protestors with rights of others. Protestors have no right to occupy highway indefintely

2) Darkness is approaching making public order policing inherently more difficult/dangerous

3) Have not got resources to police crowd through the night via kettle or cordon. Public order officers deployed since early morning need relief

4) FIT intel

Decision:- clear the street

that doesn't even come close to excusing the naked brutality that was seen on weds eve on bishopsgate. no negotiation, no warning, nothing, just physical violence of an extreme nature by men in riot suits and shields. there was no obvious danger to the officers comensurate with this response.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

1) You appear to think the right to protest is absolute,

3) Didn't see many queues of people hoping to leave.

no fucking wonder, if they tried to they knew they would get a shield or truncheon in the face...

probably the only bottles (plastic) flung were that of piss, as there was no place to go.

 

[Azrael]

Possibly, you may well have a point. Indeed the IPCC report on the Countryside Alliance makes interesting points on this. However, the police commanders would have used their experience. It might well have been counter-productive, if you give a group of determined people warning that you are going to try and make them move then you give them time to prepare. Sit-down, bring agitiators to the front, link arms etc. It's a balancing act

This is reasonable, but if clearing the highway was the priority, "kettling" seems an exceptionally poor way to go about it, especially as it will raise tensions and increase the risk of violence. As I said earlier, issues of liberty aside, it just seems a poor tactic.

I guess my view would be at odds with modern thinking of "balancing rights". People have right to protest, but not to block the highway. If they block a highway, and refuse to move, force is justified. What rights are in conflict?

My preferred scenario, if the highway is being blocked, is a magistrate ordering people to disperse by X time, followed by force for those who refuse to move.

 

[DotCommunist]

1) You appear to think the right to protest is absolute, but isn't because inevitably it starts to infringe on the rights of others.

2) Not really

3) Didn't see many queues of people hoping to leave.

Because people kettled are allowed to leave at will right.

Rights, eh, is that your trumpeted justification for police brutality.

Great. Your lot killed a man by omission or commission. Fuck off

 

[laptop]

the legitmate concerns of other people about wanting to use roads, offices etc

It was nearly midnight.

The Climate Camp had said they'd stay 24 hours.

The City could do without Bishopsgate for another 8 hours.

After all, it's closed for crane works often enough at night...

 

[david dissadent]

I believe it was tried previously and they even used the Skyshout on I99 on that occassion to no avail. However the climate camp had stated their intention to remain for 24hrs. I believe there were extensive discussions. For all the resourcing implications I have set out it would not have been viable to police that

Bullshit. You are a LIAR. I was at the camp climate as an interested but non comittal wanderer. Just popping by after work.


I heard no warning. The first I realised the scum in uniforms were moving in was near the end of the affair at about 19:45 when I heard shouts from the south side of the camp. By then I had been kettled without any warning the the protesters had been smashed.


I have been very changed by watching the police in action first hand




Fuck off with your lies to the Dialy Mail forums.

 

[pdxm]

I'm very in favour of law and order stuff.

And yet I find myself agreeing with DC. (There's a first for everything )

pxdm: It might not be "your lot" specifically - rank and file, but your bosses are out of touch on this protest. They are taking a generic approach which whilst it might get consistent results, may well - more and more - give non-criminal public a negative first-contact with the police.

Perhaps it ws the non-criminal public who were out of touch with the nature of many of the people they were associating with. Perhaps if they had turned up and thought to themselves

1) I see a lot of people masked up here and a lot who seem to do this for a
living
2) A lot appear to be drinking lots
3) I don't see much evidence of stewarding
4) There a lot of people claiming to be anarchists here...
5) A lot of the people don't seem to be clear about what they are protesting


Erm, this just might go bad later.

 

[david dissadent]

I would imagine the police Commanders decision log would look something like this:-

1) have facilitated protest for nearly 12 hours now/ need to balance rights of protestors with rights of others. Protestors have no right to occupy highway indefintely

2) Darkness is approaching making public order policing inherently more difficult/dangerous

3) Have not got resources to police crowd through the night via kettle or cordon. Public order officers deployed since early morning need relief

4) FIT intel

Decision:- clear the street

What a load of utter imagenative bilge. The kettle went in at 19:45 and was imposed without warning and no reliefe to terrified non protesters caught on the street. The police came in without warning as the kettle was imposed and kicked the fuck out of the fluffies.


I used to be a soldier. Ive been the other side of the line.




The police I seen were utter cunts and they are a shame to the Queen and too the people of Britain.

 

[DotCommunist]

Perhaps it ws the non-criminal public who were out of touch with the nature of many of the people they were associating with. Perhaps if they had turned up and thought to themselves

1) I see a lot of people masked up here and a lot who seem to do this for a
living
2) A lot appear to be drinking lots
3) I don't see much evidence of stewarding
4) There a lot of people claiming to be anarchists here...
5) A lot of the people don't seem to be clear about what they are protesting


Erm, this just might go bad later.

so points 3-4 are total bollocks then as you cannot divine someones political persuasion by looking at them, nor can you ascertain the reasons for them being there. Your lot fucked up bad, even the murdoch press is uneasy at your actions.

 

[pdxm]

And how exactly did I lie?? Did I say it was used at climate camp? I merelytsaid it had been used previously, i.e at another demonstration and had not worked. A different example is the New Years Eve celebrations. There are tons and tons of signs and officers pleading with people not to go to certain areas because it's overcrowded, etc. Just gets completely ignored. The helicopter part was in reference to the prot est in central London were kettlign was used for the first time, the signs etc were cited in evidence at court

Fuck off with your lies to the Dialy Mail forums.[/QUOTE]

 

[pdxm]

What a load of utter imagenative bilge. The kettle went in at 19:45 and was imposed without warning and no reliefe to terrified non protesters caught on the street. The police came in without warning as the kettle was imposed and kicked the fuck out of the fluffies.


I used to be a soldier. Ive been the other side of the line.




The police I seen were utter cunts and they are a shame to the Queen and too the people of Britain.

How long had the protest gone on before the kettle went in? had there not been discussions between the police and some cliamte camp reps where it had been made clear that 24hrs could not be facilitated. Has kettling not been used at numerous previous demos, so a large number of people would have known it was inevitable at some point.

 

[david dissadent]

3) Didn't see many queues of people hoping to leave.

LIAR!!!!!!! I had to console a woman who was in fits as she was walking up the street using it as a queens highway who was caught unaware in the kettle, she and others were begging to be let out.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

1) I see a lot of people masked up here and a lot who seem to do this for a
living
2) A lot appear to be drinking lots
3) I don't see much evidence of stewarding
4) There a lot of people claiming to be anarchists here...
5) A lot of the people don't seem to be clear about what they are protesting

1) masked for a living? dont talk shite again.
2) drinking lots... 7 hours your gonna need a drink and do you blame "alcohol" now for the police over reaction that was on the cards for weeks before the event and police bragging about their opportunities to face the "unwashed" and "hippys".
3) what good would stewards do when you lot decided the rules of engagement. no warnings or time scales, move when you decide, if you cant move like many couldnt.. police decided they were fair game.
4) not everyones claiming to be "anarchists", again a media "beeb" word. try pissed off people from across the board.
5) you have just created another VERY SERIOUS issue that has to be addressed.

edit to add - off to bed.. enough pityful excuses for a RIOT that only one side participated in.

 

[paolo]

pxdm: Like you, I do believe it's reasonable to allow protest.

Myself, as someone who is sympathetic to the cause of the protest, I would give a flimsy answer... "Let them stay as long as they want. After all, they won't stay forever. They'll dissipate peacefully over a day or so."

Assuming that's not reasonable (in *your* view - I refuse to believe you are spokesman for the the police in general), what's a reasonable cut off? And why?

 

[pdxm]

so points 3-4 are total bollocks then as you cannot divine someones political persuasion by looking at them, nor can you ascertain the reasons for them being there. Your lot fucked up bad, even the murdoch press is uneasy at your actions.

Hmmm, not exactly hard when the archarist types all appear to have a standard uniform, are masked up, carry a black flag and have a symbol. Not exactly rocket science to figure out their political persuasion now is it?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Post removed because what's the fucking point of arguing with pdxm?

 

[DotCommunist]

Hmmm, not exactly hard when the archarist types all appear to have a standard uniform, are masked up, carry a black flag and have a symbol. Not exactly rocket science to figure out their political persuasion now is it?

And how many of those guys were at the climate camp when your brave boys steamed into them with shield edges?

Oh thats right, fucking none.

 

[pdxm]

pxdm: Like you, I do believe it's reasonable to allow protest.

Myself, as someone who is sympathetic to the cause of the protest, I would give a flimsy answer... "Let them stay as long as they want. After all, they won't stay forever. They'll dissipate peacefully over a day or so."

Assuming that's not reasonable (in *your* view - I refuse to believe you are spokesman for the the police in general), what's a reasonable cut off? And why?

i am only assuming that for the police the reasonable cut off would be before it gets dark. They wouldn't have had enough trained officers to police it over night. As I say a huge number of offficers had been deployed to the heads of states hotels, a large number were needed for the next day. The majority of officers there had been on duty from before 4am and were needed for the next day. Interestingly, this was one of the very few demos where the Met had drafted in mutual AID. That might evidence the problem with numbers.

 

[david dissadent]

How long had the protest gone on before the kettle went in? had there not been discussions between the police and some cliamte camp reps where it had been made clear that 24hrs could not be facilitated. Has kettling not been used at numerous previous demos, so a large number of people would have known it was inevitable at some point.

I got there less than half an hour before they it went in no warning given.




Your police are cowards. You are cowards. And I will say it again........



You are fucking cowards.
You beat the fuck out of non violent protesters. Try walking the Falls road or Basra you fucking nonce. Try being a man for once in your life.

Big men beat up little kids having a protest about the climate. Fuck it the people could still come and go from the office block they were protesting against.



Your scum are an embarrasment to Britian.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

What about the police not being identifiable?

do you think its reasonable that your officers who were masked up can cover numbers and be above recognition and the law for whats nothing short of "GBH", "inciting a riot" and assault?

 

[DotCommunist]

i am only assuming that for the police the reasonable cut off would be before it gets dark. They wouldn't have had enough trained officers to police it over night. As I say a huge number of offficers had been deployed to the heads of states hotels, a large number were needed for the next day. The majority of officers there had been on duty from before 4am and were needed for the next day. Interestingly, this was one of the very few demos where the Met had drafted in mutual AID. That might evidence the problem with numbers.

ROFL

daylight arrests 19. Next morning 88.

Those nightime arrests must have been easy overtime for the heroes

 

[DotCommunist]

I got there less than half an hour before they it went in no warning given.




Your police are cowards. You are cowards. And I will say it again........



You are fucking cowards.
You beat the fuck out of non violent protesters. Try walking the Falls road or Basra you fucking nonce. Try being a man for once in your life.

Big men beat up little kids having a protest about the climate. Fuck it the people could still come and go from the office block they were protesting against.



Your scum are an embarrasment to Britian.

well said that man

 

[Garcia Lorca]

ROFL


Those nightime arrests must have been easy overtime for the heroes

Overtime that was boasted about on police oracles forum