Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat

[Paulie Tandoori]

i am only assuming that for the police the reasonable cut off would be before it gets dark. They wouldn't have had enough trained officers to police it over night. As I say a huge number of offficers had been deployed to the heads of states hotels, a large number were needed for the next day. The majority of officers there had been on duty from before 4am and were needed for the next day. Interestingly, this was one of the very few demos where the Met had drafted in mutual AID. That might evidence the problem with numbers.

bullshit. you needed a problem sufficient to claim big bucks on overtime. and created it. and now rewarded by it.

cynical?! moi.....

 

[SpookyFrank]

Hmmm, not exactly hard when the archarist types all appear to have a standard uniform, are masked up, carry a black flag and have a symbol. Not exactly rocket science to figure out their political persuasion now is it?

I am an anarchist. I generally wear jeans and t-shirts like everyone else in the world. I don't wear a mask because if I do my breath fogs up my glasses and I don't carry a fucking flag because I find they make it difficult to get through revolving doors. How would you know to avoid me if you passed me in the street, there's a scary thought for you eh?

 

[pdxm]

What about the police not being identifiable?

do you think its reasonable that your officers who were masked up can cover numbers and be above recognition and the law for whats nothing short of "GBH", "inciting a riot" and assault?

The officers were masked because they have flame proof cover under the helmet, it comes with the kit. As for covering up numbers, wasn't there, can't say. Bit pointeless as your serial is esaily identifable from the helmet markings and you'll usually have an evidence gathering behind you anyways.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

The officers were masked because they have flame proof cover under the helmet, it comes with the kit. As for covering up numbers, wasn't there, can't say. Bit pointeless as your serial is esaily identifable from the helmet markings and you'll usually have an evidence gathering behind you anyways.

does that not only identify the unit?

police? evidence gathering from behind you..... lets see how many are charged with assault.

 

[pdxm]

bullshit. you needed a problem sufficient to claim big bucks on overtime. and created it. and now rewarded by it.

cynical?! moi.....

Erm, bit of a silly argument. You don't earn overtime if a protest finishes early. if overtime was a motive you would want it to go on all night.

 

[DotCommunist]

The officers were masked because they have flame proof cover under the helmet, it comes with the kit. As for covering up numbers, wasn't there, can't say. Bit pointeless as your serial is esaily identifable from the helmet markings and you'll usually have an evidence gathering behind you anyways.

To protect from the flame throwers and firebombs no protest has ever thrown in modern times.

Cowards with badges

 

[Azrael]

Myself, as someone who is sympathetic to the cause of the protest, I would give a flimsy answer... "Let them stay as long as they want. After all, they won't stay forever. They'll dissipate peacefully over a day or so."

I disagree with the demonstrators on just about everything, but I'm a staunch supporter of free speech and the right to protest peacefully. Given that, I feel it's important I make it clear that I oppose protest that tips over into coercion, because that's the sort of thing that loses protests support.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

Erm, bit of a silly argument. You don't earn overtime if a protest finishes early. if overtime was a motive you would want it to go on all night.

why is it a silly argument when police have openly bragged about the overtime on other forums?

 

[pdxm]

does that not only identify the unit?

It identifies the serial yes. In the case of the TSG down to the six people. Most will wear numerials however, except rank officers who only wear insignia.

 

[albionism]

I got there less than half an hour before they it went in no warning given.




Your police are cowards. You are cowards. And I will say it again........



You are fucking cowards.
You beat the fuck out of non violent protesters. Try walking the Falls road or Basra you fucking nonce. Try being a man for once in your life.

Big men beat up little kids having a protest about the climate. Fuck it the people could still come and go from the office block they were protesting against.



Your scum are an embarrasment to Britian.

Indeed.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

It identifies the serial yes. In the case of the TSG down to the six people. Most will wear numerials however, except rank officers who only wear insignia.

So to the evidence gathering....

Do you think any officer who over reacted will be brought to justice

 

[rekil]

1) I didn't baton charge anyone

Yeah well I doubt whether any copper is going to put up his hand and say 'yep, that was one of mine, result, my finest work so far and the streets are that much safer.'

 

[pdxm]

why is it a silly argument when police have openly bragged about the overtime on other forums?

It's a silly argument because it was being used as a rationale for clearing the streets. Incidently the people in charge of the serials, inspectors and above don't get overtime. Believe me when you've been on duty for over 12 hours, overtime is the last thing on you mind.

 

[pdxm]

Yeah well I doubt whether any copper is going to put up his hand and say 'yep, that was one of mine, result, my finest work so far and the streets are that much safer.'

That was me was it. Must have long arms to have done it from my living room. Oh and of course she couldn't possibly have been hit by a bottle?

 

[Azrael]

It's a silly argument because it was being used as a rationale for clearing the streets.

Can't say I buy the overtime argument either. There's easier ways of getting it than a mass ruck in the City.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

Yeah well I doubt whether any copper is going to put up his hand and say 'yep, that was one of mine, result, my finest work so far and the streets are that much safer.'

yes they will, but not in public.. they will be doing their usual laughing at the "unwashed", "hippies" and "tree huggers" as they bragged about before they even went to the protest.

 

[albionism]

Giving peacefull protesters a good battering so you
can clear the streets and fuck off home is all that's
on your mind after 12 hours eh?

 

[SpookyFrank]

That was me was it. Must have long arms to have done it from my living room. Oh and of course she couldn't possibly have been hit by a bottle?

A plastic bottle would have to be fired from some sort of cannon to do that sort of damage. Can you not see how swinging batons at people's heads (and there is plenty of video footage of this happening) will cause injuries like that? What do you think happens when someone gets hit in the head by a metal pole? They see the error of their ways and make their way home feeling a little bit foolish but otherwise in tip top condition and the better for the experience? Or could it perhaps cause serious injuries?

 

[Garcia Lorca]

from the police oracle forum.

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"For many of them there will be a sense of anticipation, of eagerness and excitement to get stuck in to whatever enemy presents itself. For others, who have seen this all before, there is a quiet determination to support their colleagues and preserve their safety and that of the citizens of London who wish to go about their business peacefully.

They will be going up against the scum of our society, the immature thrill seekers and anonymous cowards who hide in large crowds with scarves pulled over their faces chanting meaningless slogans to hurl whatever is at hand at the lines of Police deployed to maintain order.

These foolish silly people believe that smashing windows, kicking cops and waving banners is a means to change society but they are no more than ‘the Mob’ which London has experienced over the ages as has many other major cities.

So boys and girls, keep your chin straps tight, your batons ready and shields high."

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batons ready, shields high, scum of society, immature thrill seekers, eagerness and excitement to get stuck in to whatever enemy presents itself.....

ohhh yeah, they forgot... the innocent people there for a peaceful protest and innocent people caught in a trap that they had absolutely no escape from.

the true feelings were stated before the polis even got there. What happened to non judgemental approaches. Guilty before any crime was committed..

"no more than the mob".....
try telling that to the family of the sadly deceased.

 

[albionism]

.

 

[pdxm]

Well it's clear we're never going to argree on much. Those that wanted to protest were given ample opportunity. Much more than those in Strasborg could be said to have been afforded. In all these situations the police have to balance competing rights, resources, legal requirements and practicalities. It's extremely difficult and hard to please everyone, comes with the territory.

 

[paolo]

The officers were masked because they have flame proof cover under the helmet, it comes with the kit.

Not unreasonable, if torching is a possibility.

As for covering up numbers...

A muddled discussion. Most photos I've seen have numbers on. There are claims of numbers 'off' with the peaceful climate camp people. I have no knowledge personally.

I'll ask the question again though. With a group of people who aren't suggesting any civil disorder, simply civil disobedience, when do "you" think it should be broken up, and how?

 

[SpookyFrank]

...excitement to get stuck in to whatever enemy presents itself.

That remark doesn't leave much room for the possibility that no 'enemy' will present itself does it? So lo and behold, no enemies to speak of and the fuckers got stuck in anyway.

...anonymous cowards who hide in large crowds with scarves pulled over their faces...

Sounds like a bang-to-rights description of the riot cops to me.

 

[Azrael]

Well it's clear we're never going to argree on much.

Speaking personally, I value highly the contributions of officers and other professionals in threads like these, and I have no time for abusive anti-police comments. I hope they don't put you off offering your opinion.

 

[DotCommunist]

oh pull your tongue from his arse, it's embarrassing.

 

[pdxm]

A plastic bottle would have to be fired from some sort of cannon to do that sort of damage. Can you not see how swinging batons at people's heads (and there is plenty of video footage of this happening) will cause injuries like that? What do you think happens when someone gets hit in the head by a metal pole? They see the error of their ways and make their way home feeling a little bit foolish but otherwise in tip top condition and the better for the experience? Or could it perhaps cause serious injuries?

No glass allowed then? I personally would never intentionally hit anyone around the head with an Asp. That said I've never hit anyone with a baton in 11 years. However if you are working at close quarters, with other people using their batons then you can't do the strikes that you would normally do, i.e from the ready postion, through 90 degrees and onto the arm or thigh. Why cos you'd hit the copper next to you. Also you forget that cops feel fear too and if you're in that siuation there is only really one of two things in your mind, "don't go down" and "don't get detached".

 

[OneStrike]

Well it's clear we're never going to argree on much. Those that wanted to protest were given ample opportunity. Much more than those in Strasborg could be said to have been afforded. In all these situations the police have to balance competing rights, resources, legal requirements and practicalities. It's extremely difficult and hard to please everyone, comes with the territory.

How tight a space were all of the Strasborg protesters confined to and how many hours above five were they held there without foood, drink or access to medication?

 

[david dissadent]

Well it's clear we're never going to argree on much. Those that wanted to protest were given ample opportunity. Much more than those in Strasborg could be said to have been afforded. In all these situations the police have to balance competing rights, resources, legal requirements and practicalities. It's extremely difficult and hard to please everyone, comes with the territory.

Let me put this to you this way. I could show the video of the scum wading in on the kids and then introduce some squadies to those kids from climate camp, (the young 16 year old lasses and 19 your old lads), at pubs in garrison towns up and down this country and by the end of it the police be lucky to be indentifyable by body parts.

 

[paolo]

from the police oracle forum.

That's a load of trolly crap. Doubt any of us count it for much, whichever way.

 

[pdxm]

That remark doesn't leave much room for the possibility that no 'enemy' will present itself does it? So lo and behold, no enemies to speak of and the fuckers got stuck in anyway.



Sounds like a bang-to-rights description of the riot cops to me.

The individual cops do not act on their own. Even the decision to put on riots gear come from the commander who is a very high ranking officer who will be torn to shreads if it all goes wrong. He is under dual pressure, one from the stratgic viewpoint and one from the officers on the grounds. Believe me officers on the ground frequently get very annoyed at the amount of grounds needed before that order is given.